C8 thread

[kevm14]

Some big news that I forgot to post: https://www.motortrend.com/news/source- ... 1B381CCA35

The all-new mid-engine C8 Corvette's impressive $59,995 starting price is only good for the first year, as we reported back in August, and unless it goes up by $20,000, Chevrolet will continue to lose money on low-trim cars, a senior GM source tells MotorTrend.

We had a feeling the $59,995 starting price was too good to be true, and a GM source confirmed as much to us explaining the price would rise for the 2021 model year. This isn't much of a surprise, as the base price of a C7 rose nearly $2,000 in its second year and by another $2,000 the following year. While we still don't know how much the C8's price will rise in 2021, a more senior GM official tells us it would have to go through the roof in order to cover GM's cost.

According to our source, the original budget for the C8 project assumed a starting price of $79,995. This is certainly reasonable considering the enormous amount of work needed to redesign the car into a mid-engine configuration, but it's a huge jump from the C7. In order to keep customers from revolting, Chevy is taking it on the chin and willingly losing money on every C8 it sells for less than $80,000. No doubt a factor in the C8's laundry list of options and dress-up parts is the hope buyers will load up their cars with extras and turn their $60,000 Stingrays into $80,000-plus Stingrays. The C8 Stingray Z71 3LT we tested rang up at $88,305.

More critical are the base prices of upcoming performance variants including Z06 and ZR1. According to our source, the sweet spot for profit and volume is between $80,000 and $100,000. Once the car crests six figures, our source says, sales volume drops off precipitously. This will be a trick for Chevrolet, because the C7 Z06 starts at $82,990, which doesn't leave the company much room for an increase without upsetting customers and breaking out of the sweet spot in price and volume. The C7 ZR1, meanwhile, already starts at $135,090, so Chevrolet has more discretion to price the C8 ZR1 knowing full well it will be a low-volume car.

I don't have much of an issue believing all of this. I think I've said something like "I have no idea how they can bring a car like this to market for $60k, and still make a profit." Well...

[kevm14]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-ch ... ven-begins

More evidence that the price is too low.

"The first year is sold out for 2020," Engle said. The allotment was about 40,000 for the U.S.

Sold out until 2021 model year.

For comparison, the Camaro has sold a little under 37k through September. We'll probably see 42-45k by the end of year. Or just a tad more than C8 sales for 2020, before it is really even available. That's something.

[kevm14]

Doug DeMuro explains why he hasn't reviewed a C8 yet.

https://youtu.be/DD3w2JHRUdU

This is fairly interesting. Also there is RAV4 content.

[bill25]

For comparison, the Camaro has sold a little under 37k through September. We'll probably see 42-45k by the end of year. Or just a tad more than C8 sales for 2020, before it is really even available. That's something.

I mean yeah, they are selling them below cost. Sure they are going to move. No surprise there.
Especially when compared to a car being sold above the market of it's buyers.
Comparing sales of these 2 platforms doesn't really make any sense. The Camaro is 4 years into it's gen, and the first refresh made it worse, it is a little better now, but the excitement is over. Compared to a brand new platform that has been being teased for like 50 years.

[kevm14]

We will have to see if GM ever releases any average transaction prices for the C8. Or, profitability (per unit) would be fine, too. Not sure we'll see that.

Here are some graphs that show perhaps why I thought this was unprecedented.

Camaro sales as function of Corvette.png (11.11 KiB) Viewed 723 times

The analysis is sort of complicated but what we see here is essentially the fact that the C7 seriously rejuvenated Corvette sales. I'd argue part of that, aside from the generally wide appeal of the C7, is that there was pent up demand from the recession (look at what happened to the C6 with the economy), plus the C6 was getting old anyway. Also, when the C7 hit, the Camaro was already beginning to slide in sales, and never really recovered. Worthwhile mentioning that the C7 was down in sales at the end of its generation to around where the C6 was so styling really isn't everything as far as sales drivers.

All of this, plus everything about the C8, leads to the situation I pointed out. I thought it was interesting.

I'd have to go dig around (maybe from a previous post) to see what "typical" sales ratios of F-bodies were to the Corvette. I'm not sure what normal is.

[kevm14]

https://jalopnik.com/the-c8-corvette-is ... 1841211894

Friday afternoon [you know, the time of week when news comes out that people want buried] the new fuel numbers were released for the 2020 C8 Corvette. It turns out that the magic midship missile from Chevrolet is worse on fuel economy than the car it replaced. It must be the fault of the 8-speed automatic and the LT2's extra 35 horsepower, because the C8 can only manage 15 mpg city and 27 mpg highway.

Chevrolet Chief Engineer Ed Piatek broke this information to Motor 1 during an interview ahead of the Daytona 24 this weekend. Friend of Jalopnik, Bozi Tatarevic, was also in attendance, confirming that the new C8 Corvette would be given a fuel tank large enough to facilitate 500 miles of range. Doing that math, it works out to about a 19 gallon fuel tank in the front trunk.

In this year of our Lord 2020, 15 miles per gallon shall not be considered acceptable.

Hmm. Does this matter? That city rating really is appalling. But isn't this what 500 hp vehicles at this weight get in the city?

Also this is kind of how complaining about the fuel economy feels:

15mpg in a recreational car where most will see ~1,500 miles per year is perfectly acceptable.
Ford just introduced a 7.3l gas V8 which gets about 15mpg highway, in an unloaded Super Duty, tens of thousands of which will be utilized for little more than commuting to the office and going to the supermarket, racking up 15,000 miles or more every year.

Yeah pretty much this.

[bill25]

Well, this is a little more HP than previous, and a little heavier. Seems logical that there would be a decrease in MPG without some new tech.

It is odd that there is such a difference between city and highway. That difference seems bigger than usual.

Then I looked up mine again... 16/24, a delta of 8 vice 12. And yeah, this obviously has more power. I am guessing the weight is the biggest impact to the MPG in city. Moving the weight from a stop is obviously more intensive than cruising at 1500 RPM steady state.

Either way, my stats are not any better.

[kevm14]

Yeah unfortunately this is not a 3,200 lb vehicle. Wish it was but it would be far too expensive given everything else going on.

[kevm14]

M/T has a little different spin on this news.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-corv ... 5FFB6C8FDF

No one mentioned this but it is also possible that the DCT is responsible for some of the city loss. The behavior difference in the transmissions will be most impactful during city type driving (reliance on the computer controlled clutch rather than torque converter automatic w/ lockup). GM knows automatics. This is their first DCT vehicle.

[kevm14]

Car and Driver version: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3065 ... -revealed/

There is a little more to this story and it surrounds the latest revision of EPA test standards.

In fact C&D gets it right:

The 2020 Chevrolet Corvette is good for EPA fuel economy of 15 mpg city and 27 mpg highway, Chevrolet said today at the start of the Rolex 24 at Daytona race weekend.
That beats the outgoing 2019 front-engine C7 Corvette, which was rated at 15/25 mpg.
Car and Driver's 75-mph highway fuel-economy test on the 2020 Corvette Z51 model yielded a result of 26 mpg on the highway.

The C8 is actually better than the C7 (well, the auto), which was 15/25 for the 8A and 16/25 for the M7.

So it matches the city rating of the C7 w/ LT1 and 8 speed auto. And exceeds the highway of both auto and manual LT1 by 2 mpg. It is also possible that it could exceed the combined ratings. Maybe hit 20 mpg?

If compared to its primary competitor, the current Porsche 911, the 2020 Corvette doesn't stack up quite as favorably in town but is close in highway driving. The new 911 is rated at 20 mpg city and 26 mpg on the highway. Meanwhile, the C8 outdoes the more expensive McLaren 720S on the highway, which is EPA rated at 22 mpg on the highway.

Anyway, this would have been useful information in the various articles (other than C&D). Unless I glossed over it.

Backfires.
https://backfires.caranddriver.com/foru ... 5-30659717

Mid-Engine, V8 and nearly 500HP and all for under 80K? I couldn't care less, besides my G37 only manages 19/28 while producing 170 less HP.