Mazda3 Replacement

[bill25]

Mazdaspeed3 did not come in auto. Manual only.


This all started with me thinking about what I would get after the 3 died, so I had an idea in advance and don't get stuck jumping into an infinitely reliable appliance that sucks to drive.

I started thinking, and was like, why would I get a boring car if a V6 Camaro was the same price. I figured that made more sense since I obviously like the car, and in general, especially after 2012, they are good.

Then I was wondering, for that same money, what else could I get?

I think spec wise, the speed3 and V6 Camaro are close. The speed3 is actually a little quicker it seems. Not sure about the updated 2012, it is probably real close. Also, in one of the caranddriver articles they definitely mentioned the insanity of trying to get the speed3 0-60 time. Not real-world realistic at all. The track time doesn't lie, but the V6 Camaro was never run, so there is no comparison.

The speed3 is really the only car on this list consistently available w/under 100K miles for less than 10K. These are probably the cheapest.
Speed3 is probably best in the winter, but will likely still need winter tires.
Gas Mileage: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... st-review/
EPA city driving: 20 mpg, EPA highway driving: 28 mpg
According to this, the average fuel economy on the V6 Camaro is 17... Sounds low.
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/ ... 012/332193

[kevm14]

Can I interest you in this fairly nimble tin can?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... up-review/

[Adam]

Can I interest you in this fairly nimble tin can?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... up-review/

Only if it is configured like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obUnEqsTmLg

[Adam]

According to this, the average fuel economy on the V6 Camaro is 17... Sounds low.
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/ ... 012/332193

That's only marginally better than the Ranger and marginally worse than the Fleetwood.

[kevm14]

EPA ratings, corrected for 2008 and apparently again for 2016. Your mileage may vary. Literally.

[kevm14]

Also if you concede on the point where you don't need to choose your "I might swap this later" vehicle now, I would put the Infiniti G35/37 back on the table. It's in the price and performance range of all of these. Even came in AWD. Coupe. Sedan. "S" performance suspensions. Lots of choices.

[bill25]

Only if it is configured like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obUnEqsTmLg

That was pretty sweet except for all the crashing... I do like those, if upgraded, but a backseat at least as big as the Camaro/3 is mandatory on this vehicle.

[kevm14]

Some Infiniti G anecdotes:

I guess I should leave the names out to protect the innocent. But, you know these three people. I've already talked to one and in the process of talking to the second. EDIT: Also got the history from the second (below).

Case 1: Bought an 09 in ~2012. Probably off lease but had only 19k. Was around $30k, if that matters. Was a loaded G37xS so AWD, sport package, tech package, winter package, pretty loaded. Currently has something just under 100k I guess. Discussed with current owner last night. Was told it has been a great car. Not a single warranty issue.

Case 2: I am still refreshing myself on the history/current situation, but this owner had an 07, it was totaled, and bought an 08. I believe AWD so I guess G35x. As far as I know it must have well in excess of 150k. I am confirming details and getting the latest on mileage/history. I suspect it's been a good car. EDIT: A 2008 G35x bought at 90k 6 years ago. Now has 184k, continues to be daily driven. Still digging into any repair history it may have. EDIT 2: Here is the history!

6/1/2016 Jeff Gomez Wheel Bearings?
12/6/2016 Speedee Oil Change Mobil 1 Oil Change and Coolant flush plus wiper change
2/4/2017 Speedee Oil Change Thermostat and Coolant Top off
4/17/2017 Tire Warehouse TPMS Sensor
4/20/2017 Speedee Oil Change Front wheel bearings 2, Front Brake Rotors, Front Brake Pads
5/15/2017 Tire Warehouse Kelly Edge A/S Perform 255/55R17 Tires
7/28/2017 Tire Warehouse 2x TPMS Sensor
8/16/2017 Speedee Oil Change Power Steering Flush, Mobil 1 Oil Change
10/12/2017 Speedee Oil Change Code Scan
12/22/2017 Barbosa and Son Oil Change 5W30 Synthetic, Filter and Antifreeze
3/21/2018 Barbosa and Son Radiator, Oil Change, Exhaust weld
6/13/2018 Barbosa and Son Bearing and Rear Brake (less State inspection $55)
8/27/2018 Barbosa and Son Ball joint, rear brake caliper, oil change
11/12/2018 Tire Warehouse Flat Tire Passenger Front plus $50 jump
11/30/2018 Barbosa and Son Oil Change
2/24/2019 Barbosa and Son Oil Change
6/26/2019 Barbosa and Son Oil Change
7/29/2019 L & S New starter
10/4/2019 L & S Oil Change
12/31/2019 Tire Rack 225/55R-17 Goodyear Assurance MaxLife SL
1/3/2019 Firestone Installation and alignment

My assessment: Normal stuff. None of that out of the realm of reasonable, and really the exact kind of work I don't mind doing. I.e. there is no weird Nissan/Infiniti stuff going on there imo. No electrical. No powertrain. Frankly a GTO could end up needing this exact same stuff.

Case 3: Someone you also know. Similar era as the above two. Got totaled. Was very sad. Bought a Q60 or whatever the equivalent is to replace it. Here's the thing...the latest Q is really not class competitive (i.e. there are better vehicles for the money) but the fact that this person wanted another one just tells you the first one must have been a good car. There is way too much choice to buy the same thing again if it wasn't a good car. I may dig into this a little or just tell you the name and you can ask.

Really shouldn't overlook these.

I should probably just start posting a few to track them.

[kevm14]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... nted-test/

2009 G37x coupe (AWD, 7-speed auto)

With its 3.7-liter V-6 engine pumping 330 hp and 270 lb-ft of torque, the G37 offers BMW 335i performance for 328i money. The all-wheel-drive coupe weighs roughly 200 more pounds than its rear-drive sibling, but the two cars turn in equal 0-to-60-mph (5.3 seconds) and quarter-mile (13.9 seconds at 102 mph) times. The extra heft is offset by better traction at launch, and the additional poundage doesn’t affect the G’s sharp handling. What it does affect is braking, with the all-wheel-drive car turning in a 175-foot 70-to-0-mph braking distance, 11 feet longer than the rear-drive coupe.

On the skidpad, the G37x pulled a respectable 0.83 g, which is good, considering its optional 18-inch wheels were shod in 225/50 all-season rubber. The rear-drive G37 Sport registered 0.89 g wearing summer performance tires. Perhaps most impressive was that the understeer commonly associated with all-wheel-drive cars was pretty moderate by comparison in the G. Body control also is superbly managed, and the ride is firm but not overly harsh. The steering has a slight touch of on-center numbness but is otherwise, in true G fashion, sharp and communicative.

I would honestly pass on the AWD. I'm not even sure it was available in manual, at least in 09+ as a G37. But read it for yourself - 330i performance for 328i money. The new car price doesn't matter but as a Japanese/reliable alternative to the 330i, that should be at least a little compelling. And that's why these were popular. Nissan sort of stopped updating them (like the 370Z) but for a while they were pretty damn competitive. As I said before, if the top Nissan sport sedan was the Maxima in the 90s, it was the RWD G cars in the 2000s as the Maxima slowly faded into irrelevance. You'd be probably looking in the 07-09 type model years, but they still make them basically. Just depends on the budget.

And back to the track time thing for a second. Nissan never really tunes their cars for the track (and track = road course), other than maybe the GT-R. I've heard all kinds of issues in track use from oil temp to weak brakes (both under continuous, severe duty). None of this matters on the street.

[kevm14]

Edmunds Long Term 2007 G35:
https://www.edmunds.com/infiniti/g35/20 ... road-test/

The top post speaks some negativity about the manual but the one directly after seems the opposite:

The G35S's Aichi Kikai-built manual transmission never confuses me about gate selection or gear engagement, and its totally mechanical feel is always a pleasure. If you understand that a shift lever is more than a funny arcade-style wand sticking out of the console, then you'll really appreciate the Infiniti G35S's transmission.

And by the way these are known to hold up to some big power.

But when discussing the clutch specifically, these words will sound eerily familiar:

Engineering Editor Jason Kavanagh aptly wrote, "The clutch action conspires to ruin the driving experience by making the driver's every gearchange feel like the first he's ever done." We found ourselves seemingly left with two choices. We could spare the clutch and stall the engine. Or we could slip the clutch and abuse it as we engaged the transmission, keeping the engine running and maintaining our pride as we accelerated away from stoplights. We did our best to split the difference.

It's crazy. Why is it so hard?? Didn't they complain about something similar in the MS3? You really have to drive all these cars. I don't find my V problematic and even that has been said to be difficult to drive smoothly so you really can't always go by what you read.

But maybe this is one reason manuals have sort of died. Still, a manual connected to a strong V6 or especially a V8 is fun in a way that an auto cannot be.

Fuel economy commentary:

Fuel economy over 20,268 miles averaged 20 mpg on premium fuel. Our highest and lowest recorded tanks were 26 mpg and 14 mpg, respectively.
Best Fuel Economy: 26.0 mpg
Worst Fuel Economy: 13.6 mpg
Average Fuel Economy: 19.5 mpg

There is less mileage dynamic range between like this, a GTO, the MS3 and even the Camaro V6 when you look at the ratings. Maybe fuel economy is not really a driver here. Side note, everything is going to want premium fuel. Like everything we're talking about. Camaro LFX probably runs the best on 87 but I believe still prefers premium. Would have to look into that.

CTS content for fun:

Just as I was all set to not care about the car leaving, I had a glance at the window sticker - $37,400 including Premium Package and Navigation. For that price our car has a Bose stereo w/ hard drive, Bluetooth, real time traffic info for the nav system, sunroof, power memory for seats, mirrors and steering wheel, heated seats and one touch windows all around.

Here's where our Long Term 2008 CTS with DI comes in, it has similar features and is a similar kind of car only it's $9,000 MORE EXPENSIVE. I love our CTS but it's not $9,000 better than the G35. Granted the CTS has an $8,000 option package but that includes stuff like a Bose stereo w/ nav, XM traffic, heated leather seats, power tilt/telescope wheel, memory seats and an Ultra View sunroof.
I never realized what a bargain the G35 is. I don't think I properly appreciated the car. Now, I'm sorry it's leaving.

Extra bonus VQ engine content:

2007 Infiniti G35 Sport: Matsumura's V6
March 24, 2008

Motohiro Matsumara says the VQ35 V6 in the Infiniti G35 began as a kind of lucky guess and became a success by accident. He designed it, so he should know.

Nissan built Japan's first V6 in volume production for an automobile, and when it introduced the VG30 V6 in the 1984 300ZX, the company was so proud that it took journalists to the engine foundry to see the aluminum cylinder heads being cast. For Nissan, it was a big thing to break away from the inline-6 engine that had defined the company since the 1960s.

That's where Motohiro Matsumura comes in. When Nissan went to redesign its V6 for 1994, Matsumura was put in charge of the project. Ever since he had first arrived at the company, he had become something of an expert in forced-induction engines. He'd started with the little 1988 Nissan March's compound engine and then later worked on Nissan's turbocharged Group C V6 for the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The VQ seemed like a big assignment to him at the time, though the senior Nissan engineers simply asked him to pay special attention to controlling noise and vibration in what would be one of the first all-aluminum V6 engines in volume production.

As Matsumura tells us, he decided that a soundly engineered structure is the best way to keep an aluminum engine from vibrating and making noise. So he just put his racing instincts to work, making sure the parts were rigid as well as lightweight. It was a lesson he'd learned with turbocharged engines. And because this V6's bones were sound, it became relatively easy to coax more horsepower out of it without compromising reliability. It seems so simple, doesn't it? That's what Matsumura says, anyway.

Some complain that the VQ's mechanical soul is way too apparent in the way it vibrates, but this is what makes it terrific. The G35's VQ35 revs cleanly from idle right to redline, and its throttle response is crisp and precise, so unlike other V6 engines that are either soggy, low-revving lumps like those from GM, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota, or torqueless screamers like those from Chrysler and Honda.

Matsumura's lucky accident worked out for him, as he went on to develop the turbocharged version of the SR21 inline-4, became chief of Nissan's engine testing department, and just recently became the president of Nissan's engineering facility in Ann Arbor, Michigan. As for the VQ, it has been one of Ward's 10 Best Engines ever since the award was created 14 years ago.

Not too bad for a lucky guess.

General info on the redesigned 2007 (2nd gen):
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/infinit ... iti-g35-2/

I like that tech package. I bet the stereo is pretty good. Probably the best of all the cars we've been talking about.

Xenon headlamps and keyless entry and starting are standard; options include a technology package consisting of adaptive front lighting that steers into turns, a rearview camera, and intelligent cruise control with "preview braking" that primes the binders when the radar sensors think you're about to crash. A premium package, priced around $3200 and traditionally selected by about 60 percent of buyers, includes a sunroof, heated seats with driver memory, Homelink, and a Bose "Studio on Wheels" sound system. That new stereo might drive sales of the Premium package even higher. It utilizes an elaborate 24-bit Burr-Brown digital-audio converter to make two channels sound like a live concert or a surround-sound system, at least when played through 10 Bose speakers. Among the speakers are two 10-inch woofers in the front doors. By placing these woofers, along with three midrange speakers, and two tweeters ahead of the front-seat occupants, there's a clearer sense of facing a sound stage.

I think I posted this before. C&D Road Test of a 2007 manual trans:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... road-test/

MARK GILLIES
BMW casts a long shadow over every contender in the near-luxury segment. But the G35 now makes a fine case for itself against the 3-series, especially as it is likely to be cheaper. The G35 also brings up another comparison, to wit: Why on earth would one buy a Lexus IS350? The Lexus isn't appreciably quicker, doesn't look as good, and is a fairly anodyne driving experience, whereas the G35 is a very soulful machine. The Lexus has a more beautifully wrought interior than the G35's (much improved) cabin, but that's about its only advantage. In short, Infiniti does a much better job of being the Japanese luxury brand that makes cars we want to drive.

I don't want to overemphasize the car but just make the point that it really deserves to be on your list by the standards we've applied.