Generator solutions

Power out? How about an inverter connected to your car?
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kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

I have been looking at generators for a while now and I like what I see from the Duromax brand. Amazon had a sale on their 8000W continuous 16hp model which was an insane $800 shipped. It’s back up to $1000 now. But I also see they make a 3850W and 8000W dual-fuel unit that they call “hybrid” because you can switch back and forth between fuels. They cost extra but it may be worth it to get something meant to run on propane on day one even. The conversion kits are damn expensive anyway.

Evidently 5 gallons of gas is roughly equivalent to 20 lbs of propane. I know better than to try running a generator (particularly a large one) on a 20 lb propane tank, especially in the winter. I guess I can buy this and have it filled somewhere. Over 150lbs full though.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_28370-743-30395 ... 080473&Ntt

My thought was perhaps always run on gas and the propane serves as a backup. But on the other hand, generators seem to run better on propane (aside from 10% reduced power output in many cases) because it’s a cleaner fuel and already a gas so you don’t even use the choke. Or, I don’t bother stockpiling gasoline. Instead, I keep ~20 gal of containers on hand. During first response, I run propane. Then, I have time to deal with the gasoline situation (go out and get some, or schedule a propane delivery in 2 or 3 days from the outage). Does any of this make sense?

Which leads me to which generator I need.

http://www.amazon.com/DuroMax-XP10000EH ... al_qh_dp_t

A beast like this should run about 50 hours on a 100 lb tank at 50% load, which is probably more load than I’d really average.

Its little brother: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J7V5ENG?psc=1

The house already has an interesting little shed in the front yard with screen windows that would be perfect for a generator house. Then I could run a cord to the house and the side of the house that faces the shed is a window with the dryer vent, and the dryer outlet. Nice.

Important loads: well pump, oil furnace, separate oil fired hot water. The rest would be convenience loads like lighting, some electronics, microwave, etc.

Given all that, I feel like the 4850 linked above COULD be a tad on the small side but would probably work.

The house actually has an old generator but I don’t know the condition or even if he’s going to leave it (he should).
DSC_4889.JPG
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Quick calcs.
generator load calcs.png
generator load calcs.png (8.63 KiB) Viewed 3057 times
2800 average continuous. Except this isn't the whole story. I need something closer to that 6400W number. Why? Because a totally possible situation is refrigerator + furnace + hot water + well + lights. Those alone, at the same time, are 3450W. If I got the 3,850 continuous watts generator, I'd have 400W of headroom left. Not enough. That 8000W continuous model actually seems like the right option. Too bad the dual fuel one is $1300.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

A far more sophisticated and expensive solution would involve putting the well pump on a dedicated battery bank/inverter and run a high output charger from the generator. That way the well pump didn't directly influence the generator load (aside from the charger) and I'd have running water during periods the generator is not running.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

This is well rated and I know someone who owns one with no complaints.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smarter-Tool ... /203872361

5580W continuous on propane which may be just enough for my needs. $750 on sale which isn't too bad.

If I ran all loads except the 1000W/Misc at the same time, that would be an estimated 5370W. So, with somewhat judicious load management, it could probably work. I could, for example, shut the furnace off before running the microwave. I have easy control over those two loads.
bill25
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:20 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by bill25 »

My current plan is to use the big one (7000 continuous, 8750 surge) but it uses a lot of gas: 9 gallons in 12 hours @50% load.

If this doesn't work out, due to losing power a lot I will get the little Honda as the primary worker and only run the big one to take showers, wash/dry cloths, hot water.
(I haven't gone out and gotten the Honda because I actually haven't ran the big one for more than a couple hours since I bought it.)

I would have a setup to use the Honda to run the pellet stove and refrigerator plus some lights, modem and TV if Verizon isn't out.

The big one is just overkill to run 24 hours a day for the pellet stove and fridge.


I would be careful with propane unless you plan on getting it filled yourself. The local company gouged me for 7.75 a gallon because I don't get it filled often. I am leaving that company as soon as the platinum propane is used and they can take their shitty no gauge tanks back. I will get my own tank and fill it on my own.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

That's why I'm saying the right solution is probably a good sized battery bank and a good 240V inverter. The generator would recharge the batteries when running, though I'd have to do the math to see how feasible that really is.

I don't want to oversize my generator, either, but I don't want it to be running 100% since I don't know if these cheap consumer gen sets are really made for that. Getting something smaller will help fuel consumption obviously. Unless the small one ends up running pegged then it may actually use more fuel than a larger one at ~50%. Oy.

Then again, I ran my entire house on a 1500W inverter during Nemo and that worked out great. But I had a different expectation and used very aggressive load management. Which was part of the fun, I admit.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote:The house actually has an old generator but I don’t know the condition or even if he’s going to leave it (he should).
Did a little digging and I think I’ve determined what this generator is.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthrea ... =106297#15

Scroll up for more background but that sure looks like it. It uses a Tecumseh 8HP engine (HM80) and apparently the generator end is made by a company called Winco. I forgot to take a pic of the label plate but I did look at it and I think it was this:
4PTH 3m/J10
Click on the label plate pic. I think this is it: http://www.fastline.com/v100/Generator- ... 1635f.aspx

Anyway, here's Winco's site now:

http://www.wincogen.com/

It is a continuous duty rated unit which means it was probably built to a higher standard than some of the consumer stuff available today. If you browse their site, it appears to be mostly commercial/industrial duty with some high quality residential offerings available.

It may be worth resurrecting depending on what it needs. 4kW should be just enough for the well pump and furnace with some carefully chosen additional loads. I can still get parts for both the Winco generator end as well as the Tecumseh engine (mostly). Cool.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Even better!

http://www.wincogen.com/files/downloads ... s_list.pdf

Score! This is right up my alley. An old thing that is way better than new crap.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

This is essentially the operating manual that Winco sent me.
Attachments
53045-4R ENGINE DRIVEN MANUAL.pdf
(1.86 MiB) Downloaded 38 times
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Bill has this one.

http://www.generac.com/all-products/gen ... nt=Default

http://www.amazon.com/Generac-5798-Port ... B002NKMG4S

Has some features worth noting:
- OHV full pressure lube w/ oil filter
" Where is the engine made?
The engines used on the Generac XP and
XG Series of portables are manufactured at
our Generac Power Systems, Inc. factory in
Whitewater, WI. Generac engines are industrial
grade engines designed to provide the ultra-quiet,
longer-lasting performance required of portable
generators."
From an Amazon review:
"Interesting exceptional features - piston & sleeve coating allows for cooler running which is desirable for ANY combustion engine and this is the 1st - FIRST - F I R S T time ever I have read on ANY generator manual to change the oil annually - that's right,... not every 40 hrs or 50 hrs or 60 hrs.... ANNUALLY! This is HUGE considering every generator I've ever read the manual required an oil change as described above."
Only issue is Generac support sounds terrible (same thing happened to Anderson windows - decent product but if there's an issue, life is going to suck). On the contrary, a few of the US importers of Chinese generators, like Duromax, have pretty good support if something goes wrong. So you're paying for the inherently superior design with the Generac.
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