Generator solutions

Power out? How about an inverter connected to your car?
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61722

Could be a few things. About the only thing I could try is turning the RPM down to as close to 60Hz as I can at the moment I am trying to use the microwave, or like running the toaster while the microwave is running to help load the generator and maybe make a better waveform. If none of that helps then I guess it's a general power quality issue though that still does not answer how power is dropped and then restored seemingly automatically even though I don't understand how it has the capability to do that.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote:7:40pm...fuel, oil.

Definitely want to switch to SAE-30 tomorrow. Unless I can't find an SAE-30 heavy duty oil but we'll see.

It almost seems like the Delo 400 15W-40 I like changed its formulation ..noticed more consumption in my Simplicity, too....hmmm.
Well isn't this interesting....

https://www.truckinginfo.com/137951/che ... erformance

The new line is called SDE in 15W-40 weight. Of course it is "better" for over the road engines but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up worse for a small engine.

The oil that I originally selected I think is this: Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 API CJ-4, which I think should still be available.

So I will either switch back to LE or try something else. If I can get an HDEO SAE 30 I'll consider that for the generator. And maybe my Simplicity. The Deutz I think may still want something thinner for winter. Unfortunately the Shell 5W-40 I bought is also CK-4 and seemed more "watery" like the Delo 400 15W-40 SDE. Soooo.....need to work on this issue some more.

Before someone asks...these are all old engine designs (except my snow blower which runs fine on M1 5W-30) and I don't want a modern fuel economy/emissions oil in them. I think they have different needs and what I'm saying is older formulations are most likely better for them.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

This is a real pain. I don't think the Delo 400 LE 15W-40 is available. I went to two Advance Autos in Providence, one said they had four 2.5 gallon jugs and the other said they had two, but neither could find any. I guess they send back the rest to the manufacturer after a certain amount of time so they don't have out of date inventory or whatever. But the story is not over. I did manage to buy 2 gallons of Delo 400 5W-40 synthetic that was CJ-4 rated (not CK-4) rated. A small amount of research suggests that the CK-4 may be a high phosphorous blend that Ford had a hand on pushing due to some issue on their diesels. I will use this Delo 400 5W-40 for the Deutz as a winter oil.

I drained the oil on my lawn tractor when hot and it was quite watery. It seemed like 5W-30. Very thin and watery. Not sure how this is a 15W-40. Anyway, I don't trust it. But I still need a CJ-4 15W-40 for my generator and Simplicity.

They had two Peak 15W-40 gallon jugs that were CJ-4, synthetic blend. Peak. Yeah the coolant people. They were trying to make some money from oil based on their DEF fluid fame I guess. I'd assume it is generic 15W-40 but it is CJ-4 so I said I'd take what they had, which was two gallons. Get this though...because this stuff is also discontinued, the price was $0.05. That's right, 5 cents each gallon. LOL. I will say though if oil consumption is better in both my Simplicity and generator on this generic CJ-4 15W-40, I think that more than proves my theory.

There is no other CJ-4 15W-40 available and this really sucks. I will have to do more research or maybe hit a few other stores to see if they have anything at all, from any brand. Seems like CJ-4 15W-40 is rapidly getting phased out. Maybe so someone doesn't accidently buy it because it is not good enough for whatever garbage engine Ford has?

If the 15W-40 thing really doesn't work, I will look at CJ-4 SAE 30 oils which I am hoping I have better luck with, and maybe switch both the generator and my Simplicity to that...

I am kind of impressed that I had a hunch that the formulation changed and not only that, but it was performing differently. I think there is a conversation here and I think it also proves that in some cases, the type of oil (and rating) DOES matter, in certain applications. I mean...if none of this mattered, they wouldn't have so many different types of oil, even within the same viscosity range. Generally, it's really just base stock + viscosity improvers + additives. And with a higher end synthetic base stock, fewer VIs are needed. But the additives can and do vary based on application. They are not all the same. First, there are gas and diesel oils. This CJ-4 business is a diesel rating and I have long favored diesel oil in my small engines because I think it has good additive packs (like zinc), high detergency, and can stand up to some abuse. Many of these types of oils have long been marketed as "all fleet" oils because they are rated for diesels and thus also work fine in gas engines. I don't think this really works today because of two main things: tight emissions controls (some additives may harm the catalytic converters) and newer cars have been on this 5W-20 or even 0W-20 thing for a while now and there are no diesel oils that thin.

But back in the day, you can picture a farmer buying 5 gallon buckets of 15W-40 diesel oil for his tractors, diesel trucks and what have you, and then also using it in his 454 1 ton pick up and stuff. In Texas, there would be nothing wrong with that.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Oh I had it backwards. Ford does NOT like CK-4!
API CK-4
Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines,
new or old. Ford testing has shown some CK-4 type formulations have shown
inadequate wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed
before 2016.
Ford now recommends using oils that meet...
https://www.flsheriffs.org/uploads/docs ... tement.pdf

I guess I take back what I said about garbage engines then. I said that because the trend over the past 20 years has been a weird balance between lowering emissions and increasing fuel economy, and still providing sufficient engine protection. Some oils do this well, others have just gotten worse. I think basic Mobil 1 is not that great of an oil, for example, because they now upsell you to their higher lines like Extended Protection which is probably what basic M1 should be...
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Wow, Shell reads BITOG.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... /4484864/3
Hi @bubbatime, Happy to hear you're liking the latest products. We wanted to share with you some information from a recent technical bulletin highlighting the recent industry change associated with the introduction of the API CK-4/FA-4 categories. This change has taken place due to an agreement by API members and engine manufacturers to amend the API requirements for allowing diesel engine oils to historically claim gasoline category approvals.

Previously, heavy duty engine oil marketers could claim an API gasoline performance standard on their products if they met CJ-4 and the required performance tests for gasoline standards. The recommended viscosity grades for modern gasoline engines are XW-20s and XW-30s. As such, this waiver process is being phased out. Heavy duty engine oils which are XW-30s (and which claim API CK-4 approval) cannot also claim API gasoline standards, unless they meet the current phosphorous requirements/limits. With that said, The new fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 is one such product that meets the performance requirements of API CK-4 as well as API SN and is formulated with 800 parts per million of phosphorous, which meets the API SN requirements.

While the industry waiver is still currently in existence for heavy duty engine oils that are XW-40s, this remains in discussion to be addressed by the API in the near future.

However, as a leader in the transport industry, the Shell ROTELLA brand has made the decision to remove API SN claims, regardless of viscosity, from our other products which do not meet the preferred low-phosphorous chemistry for gasoline engines. Its also important to note that there is no change in formulation associated with this change. It simply means that Shell ROTELLA products will no longer claim formal API SN approval for products other than our fully synthetic Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 on labels, technical data sheets, rotella.com and marketing materials moving forward.

We hope this helps to clarify the removal of the SN ratings on the bottles.

- The Shell ROTELLA Team
Like I said, there is more to oil than just viscosity specs....
kevm14
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Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

The smoking gun may be when the oil is also API SN rated. That pretty much certifies the oil as "dual use" between modern gas emissions usage, and also somehow heavy duty diesel. Many people are skeptical about this compromise and it may not be CK-4 itself that is the problem, but when there is an API SN rating. I will check this when I get home. I am looking for API SM apparently.

I suspect the Delo 400 SDE is an API SN oil, which is the fuel economy/emissions thing, and likely explains the thinness that I noticed (and thus oil consumption).

So I am becoming more convinced that I don't need to avoid CK-4, but it needs to be API SM not SN. This should make my life a little easier. Of course, I plan to validate at least some of these theories with evidence and the only REAL evidence I have is oil consumption on my 30 year old small engines. At least that's something.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

This discussion dates back to 2017:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... ype/thread
Re: Which of the big three in 15W-40 CK4 - 03/30/17 03:16 PM
There's varying opinions on the CJ-4 vs CK-4 conventional 15W40's. From what I've seen at my local Walmart, the Delo on the shelves is all the CK-4 stuff. However, I looked at the API donut on the back label of the CK-4 Rotella-T4 15W40, and it doesn't show it's an SN rated oil. So I assume it still contains good levels of zinc and phosphorus. If you're not brand loyal to Chevron Delo, I'd consider the Rotella-T4, or if you can still find the SM rated Delo at a really good price, I'd stock up. Same goes for the CJ-4 version of Mobil Delvac Super 1300 15W40; it's excellent oil IMO.

I know the jury is still out on the CK-4 oils, and I'm hoping Chevron thinks again about offering a new SM rated version of their CK-4 Delo 15W40.

But I'm not brand loyal. I used to use Mobil Delvac products in my Semi, and the reason I switched over to Delo is because my Local Chevron Distributor has a massive supply of CJ-4 oils, but now their prices aren't matching/beating Walmart's. I also switched to Delo because I can find the 10W30 XLE at Walmart at a really good price. I run the 10W30 in the coldest Winter months, and Walmart doesn't stock Delvac Elite, now called Delvac Extreme 10W30.

But I see Walmart offers every variety of Rotella products and at good prices. If my UOA on the Delo CK-4 15W40 comes back looking funky, I'm definitely switching over to Rotella products.

In my opinion, Delvac, Rotella, and Delo are excellent products, save the CK-4 SN dual rated oils, until I see more evidence on them. I base my decisions on price and performance, so I'm watching closely at this time.
kevm14
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Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Tin foil hat time: The EPA does I think weigh in on these API ratings, and is always going to push for lower emissions and high fuel economy. Do I think the EPA cares about engine longevity? I hardly see why they would. Also, what if they reduced some additive because it can foul catalytic converters, or lead to increased tailpipe emissions, or made the oil a little thinner for better fuel economy. Now imagine someone says...hey this might not be good for older engines.....yeah and the problem with that is????
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_us ... 5w-40.html

This is the oil I have been using and sort of mistakenly bought because the oil I really wanted is no longer made.
An API CK-4 heavy duty engine oil specifically formulated for 2017 greenhouse gas (GHG 17) compliant diesel engines designed for lower emissions and improved fuel economy. Fully compatible with previous engines and oil categories.
Oh yes, now I'm happy. And yes indeed it is API SN in addition to CK-4.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

I honestly don't know if this is still being made but it would probably be the "best" oil for warmer ambient temps, like over 32 or 40F. Delo 400 SAE 30.

https://www.amazon.com/Delo-400-SAE-Mot ... M2YJ8?th=1

API CF and SL. Yeah! Nice and old. For S&G, let's see what Briggs actually specified...

API SE, SF or SG. So the "old" SL is still way newer than what Briggs intended back in the 80s. And for the record, SAE 30 is recommended for all operation over 40F. They specifically do not recommend usage of SAE 30 below 40F. My problem with SAE 30 is it is not an all-season oil because it's so thick. That's why I'm hesitant to use it. It also cautions about the use of multi-viscosity oils in temps above 40F, with a note about high oil consumption. Normally a modern HDEO 15W-40 would be fine but these latest formulations (like API SN) I think are just no good. The thing just burns it. I don't think engine protection is really compromised to be honest (though the thinness still concerns me). But I am not a fan of excessive consumption for what should be obvious reasons.

Also for the record, I think there are definitely times that my garage gets below freezing, and some of those times could require the use of a generator. Typically after a nice Feb snow storm, the next morning is single digits. There is a good chance my garage will support the continued freezing of snow/ice on the snow blower in those conditions and thus is at least a good 10 degrees below the 40F cutoff point. Since generators start and sit on the governed 3,600 rpm I'm still not a fan of using SAE 30 year round because of that.
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