Top sellers for 2016

[kevm14]

This article gets so close.

https://www.fool.com/investing/general/ ... -race.aspx

And yet misses it, by not mentioning my point: That F-series includes F-150 through F-750. F-450 and up are not really pickup trucks.

I also realized that Ram started doing this and it may be related to spinning off the model as its own division, as the introduction of the 4500 and 5500s coincided with that change.

[kevm14]

More research. Found this:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/07/be ... ckups.html

June 2009 YTD, GM sold 200,016 1/2 ton through 1-ton pickup trucks, between Silverado and Sierra.

Ford? 173,646.

In fact, in June 2009 YTD, check out 1/2 ton sales alone (what everyone thinks is that the data says):
Chevrolet: 119,959
GMC: 39,053
GM: 159,012
Ford: 107,778

See? I knew I was onto something. This medium duty bullshit is just that.

[kevm14]

3/4 ton and 1 ton data.

Chevrolet: 29,990
GMC: 11,014
GM: 41,004
Ford: 65,868

Doesn't nearly make up for the shortfall on 1/2 tons. And that's the whole point! F-series sales are always mentioned next to F-150 news/articles.

[kevm14]

There are some good comments at that link:

I have been told Ford includes 450's and 550's in their totals, GM considers their 4500 and 5500 models medium duty trucks and does not include them with heavy duty pickups. Does anyone know if this true?

Bingo. Someone awake at the wheel. They now include up to F-750 if Wikipedia is to be believed.

Haha

But all of Ford's commercials would have you believe that their F-150 is the top selling vehicle in the world, when in fact, Chevrolet outsells them in the 1/2 ton market! That's a pretty big eye opener for all you Ford homers!!! That's what you call deceptive marketing practices! It's their Heavy Duty trucks which are pulling all the weight (no pun intended, I think) over there. VERY INTERESTING!!

EXACTLY!

ford has the most heavy-duty sales because when it comes to heavy-duty trucks Ford by far sells the most to fleet, are highway and city road crews are littered with stripped down F-250's.

Also nice to see that the older Silverado is out-selling the brand new F-150, i wasn't really excepting that but it shows how great of a truck it really is.

Even better.

Makes my point about this being a sketchy marketing practice. Some light needs to be shined on it...

[kevm14]

I emailed the founder of goodcarbadcar.net. Here is my e-mail for your amusement:

Tim,

Something has been bothering me for years (I know, I should see a shrink). Ford has brilliantly lumped its pickup trucks into a single nameplate that they call “F-series.” Research indicates that this includes F-150, F-250, F-350, F-450, F-550, F-650 and F-750. And by research I mean that Wikipedia says so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series

Can you confirm that this is correct? If so, using “F-series” to compare to GM or FCA’s truck offerings is pointless. Ram goes up to 5500 but GM has stopped at 1 tons (i.e. 3500 or 350) for the Silverado/Sierra name plates for as long as I can remember.

So that begs the question – is it legit (in your opinion) to basically pump up “F-series” sales by including trucks that, frankly, have no bearing on what I would call a “pickup truck?” It seems that Ford is highly befitting from this as every F-150 article talks about F-series sales. Every reader now conflates “F-series” with “F-150” and concludes, well, the F-150 must be the best-selling vehicle in the country.

Is it? Do you have other data? What about at least numbers for F-150 through F-350? My theory is GM sells more ½ through 1-ton pickup trucks than either Ford or Ram, and since these are what I think most people consider “pickup trucks” I think this is relevant.

Thanks for reading,
-Kevin

Tim just sent me a thoughtful reply:

Hi Kevin,

Ford F-Series sales figures in Canada and the U.S. does not include F-650 and F-750. Not that those numbers are significant, but Ford breaks them down under a separate Heavy Trucks section that we don’t track on GCBC.

Do the truck lineups line up perfectly? No, not at all. But it’s not just because of the weight classes alone. There are all kinds of variations, just as there are with midsize cars (Honda offers a coupe) and compact cars (Honda offers three bodystyles, Hyundai’s essentially at one for the moment), and minivans (Toyota offers AWD), and sports cars (Boxster Cayman numbers are split, F-Type numbers aren’t) and all sorts of other things.

It’s more noticeable with trucks because of the volume level AND because the differences in the vehicles are far more noteworthy. This isn’t the way I’d like to display sales figures, but we can’t help what ALL automakers have determined to do, as is their right. I’d love a breakdown and continue to compel them to provide them, but they refuse. That goes for all three major truck makers.

It’s fair to say that it’s not Honda’s “fault” for offering more bodystyles for the Accord or Civic, it’s not Porsche’s “fault” for diminishing apparent Boxster/Cayman success by splitting the two, and it’s not Ford’s fault for having successful trucks across a broader model range than their competitors. Just as we compare total auto sales figures and market share for brands that offer widely disparate model ranges, trucks aren’t perfectly, 100%, completely comparable. But even if we had a breakdown by F150, 250, 350 (for each automaker), the numbers still wouldn’t be. They’re being offered in different price spectrums, with different incentives, with different levels of profitability.

As a rough guide, you can always assume that between 67%-75% of F-Series, Sierra, Silverado, Ram sales are of the light-duty 1500/150 categories.

You can also safely assume that far more writers than readers conflate F-Series with F150. I hear from countless readers who DON’T make the mistake but read countless journalists from inside the auto industry and out that assume Ford’s report of F-Series sales or GM’s report of Chevrolet Silverado sales pertain to the 150/1500 models. It’s too bad.

Thanks for getting in touch,
Tim C

Founder & Editor: www.GoodCarBadCar.net
Passionate Tracking Of Auto Sales Data
Twitter: @GoodCarBadCar
goodcarbadcar@gmail.com
Contributing Sales Analyst: AutoFocus, The Truth About Cars

[kevm14]

My response to his response:

Tim,

Thanks for the thoughtful and quick reply. I realize now that this issue is pretty common. But like you said, due to the volumes involved, as well as the very diverse lineup that falls under “F-series,” I find this practice much more deceptive on Ford’s end than the other examples you cite.

Thanks also for clarifying that F-series does not include F-650 and F-750. I am glad those are broken out.

I appreciate your examples of other sales number issues in the industry.

While most people would consider an Accord sedan and coupe to be the same basic car, the F-450 and F-550 medium duty trucks have far less relation to the lower weight class trucks. I think they sell a fair amount of these, unlike the heavy duty F-650 and F-750.

It’s also deceptive because this is the only case where the data includes “commercial use.” And I don’t necessarily mean fleet sales, but Joe Homeowner may theoretically may consider every vehicle on the list (including all of the examples you cite) but he’s not cross shopping an F-450 or F-550, except in such rare cases that it is not worth even considering. Those are flatbed trucks, tow trucks, dump trucks and basically commercial/construction-only vehicles. While a ¾ ton or 1-ton truck is not uncommon to daily drive as someone’s “car” that is not happening with the F-450 and F-550, and I guess that is the distinction here that is not the case for any of your examples.

To clarify, I understand ¾ tons and 1-tons are used commercially – but I will presume this is done so in a fairly even manner (even though like you said, one brand may give better incentives, skewing the data). It’s just that the F-450 and F-550 are pretty much used exclusively in this manner.

I mean good for Ford for having a wide line of trucks but it’s not like they don’t know what they are doing. I find it particularly distasteful when the data is used to maintain a marketing claim about long term sales leadership.

It would be just as legitimate for GM to lump Colorado/Canyon sales in with their full-size numbers, since those are about as related to ½ ton trucks as Ford’s medium duty trucks are. Would that be unfair to Ford? It shouldn’t be – GM happens to sell a midsize pickup in the US right now and Ford does not (just like GM is no longer in the medium duty truck business, it was the old Kodiak line, which by the way, was never branded Silverado).

On the Ram side, some research suggests that they started offering a 4500 and 5500 truck at the same time they spun off the Ram brand (2009). Can you confirm that Ram numbers include these medium duty trucks like Ford does? I would have the same issue with them except Ford has been doing it a lot longer, and using it as a major marketing pitch.

Drawing an analogy to cars, it would be like if BMW lumped all car sales together and called it “Number-series,” covering 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7-series cars. It would seem ridiculous, and insufficiently broken down to be relevant to anyone.

A GM example would be if they released numbers for everything on D2XX. That would lump the Cruze, Volt, Envision, Equinox and Terrain into the same number – and these sell large volumes at the nameplate level. Is it GM’s fault that Ford doesn’t have multiple brands (i.e. Chevrolet, GMC, Buick)?

I understand everything is not on an even keel; I just wish the data was more transparent so people (and analysts) would have an easier time drawing their conclusions. And some manufacturers seem to be getting away with more than others.

Sorry for the longer response than my original.

Keep up the good work on your site.

-Kevin

[kevm14]

I'll use this thread to continue and maybe draw some comparisons to 4 year old posts.

For now, here's pickup sales.

Model YTD YTD LY YTD Change
Ford F-Series 896,526 909,330 -1.41
Ram Pickup 633,694 536,980 18.01
Chevrolet Silverado 575,569 585,582 -1.71
Toyota Tacoma 248,801 245,659 1.28
GMC Sierra 232,325 219,554 5.82
Chevrolet Colorado 121,703 134,842 -9.74
Toyota Tundra 111,673 118,258 -5.57
Ford Ranger 83,571 0 0
Nissan Frontier 72,369 79,646 -9.14
Jeep Gladiator 40,038 0 0
Honda Ridgeline 33,334 30,592 8.96
GMC Canyon 32,826 33,493 -1.99
Nissan Titan 31,514 50,459 -37.55

GM is doing 807,894 trucks so #2 spot still. The Sierra grew by about the amount the Silverado dropped, so net about the same as last CY. Ram's story is interesting. They came in from behind. I figure they were hungrier than GM who had to deal with pleasing their broad base of buyers - keeping current ones while expanding. Ram is also capitalizing on the trend that everything has to be the height of luxury so their interiors may be selling a lot of trucks, though I think they are decent trucks anyway. No idea on reliability though. Side note, Tacoma sales are around the same as a JGC. Colorado + Canyon = 154,529. I'm not sure the Ranger had a full year. Probably not.

[kevm14]

I was going to put this in the top 15 thread but it really belongs here.

Here is "midsize luxury cars" according to Good Car Bad Car.

Code: Select all

Model			YTD	YTD LY	YTD Change
Tesla Model 3		161,100	140,317	14.81
Lexus ES		51,336	48,482	5.89
MB E / CLS-Class	39,858	46,424	-14.14
BMW 5-Series		38,709	43,937	-11.9
Audi A6			17,807	10,561	68.61
Lincoln MKZ		17,726	19,852	-10.71
Cadillac XTS		11,306	17,729	-36.23
Cadillac CT6		7,952	9,669	-17.76
Genesis G80		7,095	7,446	-4.71
Cadillac CTS		6,966	11,220	-37.91
Lincoln Continental	6,587	8,758	-24.79
Audi A7			4,955	3,852	28.63
Volvo 90-Series		4,052	9,892	-59.04
Lexus GS		3,378	6,604	-48.85
Infiniti Q70		2,552	4,479	-43.02
Jaguar XF		1,236	2,208	-44.02
Acura RLX		1,019	1,931	-47.2

We can definitely have a conversation about the Model 3. But let's just look at the CT6 and Continental for a minute. The CT6 is being canceled I guess. But it sold more than the Continental in CY19 and while both declined in CY19, the Continental declined worse! I can support some reviving of the CTS but I wish they would just continue to make the CT6, improve it, introduce technology with it, etc. I don't understand. And looking at this list alone, Cadillac does not look like a grotesque failure. But the top 4 are some heavy hitters. Everyone else is doing small numbers, including supposedly successful brands.