2020 Ford Mustang GT500

[kevm14]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2586 ... otos-info/

I actually read this in a paper C&D even though it is an "old" article.

Most relevant info:

Torque flows to a Tremec-sourced seven-speed dual-clutch transmission developed for this application. There will be no manual.

Oh really.

Also, it uses the same supercharger as the C7 ZR1. I will be disappoint (sic) if the C8 also uses a variation (in transaxle form) of this Tremec dual clutch trans which, honestly, seems highly likely, no? I mean Tremec was the exclusive supplier of Corvette manuals since 1997 and frankly all GM high performance manuals were also Tremec, the only exceptions usually being non-V8 cars (think Solstice, V6 CTS, etc.). They never cheaped out like Ford did on the Mustang (look up the Getrag MT-82).

Then again, both the supercharger (Eaton) and manual transmissions are third party supplied, and it's probably better to sell more things, especially if the goal is the lowest price possible. Ford dealers don't usually adhere to that memo, though, with their ADM bullshit.

But back to the transmission stuff. Is that too much if the C8 uses a Tremec dual clutch transaxle? They already have the 10-speed auto stuff going on. Now this. Eh, maybe it's about as scandelous as Chrysler using ZF transmissions - sometimes it just makes good business sense.

The Camaro ZL1 1LE may put up a good track fight, but lose on the street. Still don't see the GT500 as a Corvette competitor, especially with the C8 coming.

[kevm14]

Amateurs.

The engine has a new cast-aluminum structural oil pan, which has both static baffles and hinged doors that open and close under high g-forces to fend off oil starvation. Ford Performance chief functional engineer Ed Krenz says this allows for sustained track survivability without a dry-sump system.

[kevm14]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-fo ... 2A13124821

You could read this and be like...so Ford knows how to design cars using computers, apparently unlike GM with the 1,000 hp C8. That's not a legitimate conclusion but it is funny and cynical.

I actually do want to see what Ford can pull off when they put effort into it. But the excitement is also a penalty. Every awesome Camaro and Corvette that GM sells is more or less available to the public, usually at MSRP and often less. The GT500 may be great but if it is put on some pedestal and unavailable, too expensive, etc., that diminishes the accomplishment imo.

[kevm14]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-s ... spartanntp

Most Expensive 2020 Mustang Shelby GT500 Costs $107,080

Discuss.

[bill25]

There are a couple ways to look at this.

Corvette side:
It looks sick, and with 760 horsepower, power is in Corvette ZR1 territory. Clearly this isn't a Corvette, but that has always been Ford's thing. Use the top Mustang to try to compete with the Corvette since Ford doesn't have one as I really think Ford looks at the GT as a supercar competitor more than a Corvette competitor. I want to say the Z07 package is an extra 20K so there is precedent for top options (especially handling/aero) being stupid expensive.

Camaro side:
The ZL1 is 650/650 HP/Torque, and not sure if there is a carbon fiber package for it, but, the base GT500 is well within pricing of a ZL1 at 74K with over 100 more HP. The Zl1 kind of has a back seat...

It will be interesting to see how this handles, but in the end, the most expensive fully optioned car is never the best value, especially when paint is almost 11K. Also, I am not paying 10K for a stripe.

[kevm14]

Evidently the curb weight is 4,225 lbs. That is a lot closer to a Challenger than it should be. The ZL1 is 3,920 which is also heavy but 300 lbs is not insignificant. The 1LE is 3,837 which is even better.

The 755 hp ZR1 is in the 3,650 lb range. For reference that runs around high 10s @ 134 or so.

I would estimate then that the GT500 will be a little faster than both the ZL1 and C7 Z06 in a straight line. It will be slower on a track because of the lard and high center of gravity. Physics usually wins.

[kevm14]

I am curious about suspension calibrations but I think the GT500 is more suited for being a Ford version of the Hellcat model line, than anything GM has. More strongly worded, I think they'd be stupid to calibrate in a punishing ride just to try taming those 4,2xx lbs and still end up with something that's neither comfortable nor really good at the track. From a sales standpoint, it also makes sense to go after the Challenger side of the house more than a Camaro/Corvette competitor. Also, the GT500's legacy is more in the Hellcat category anyway (predating the Hellcat by a full 8 years, by the way, as a 2007). It was not much of a handler.

I highly doubt it will match the ZL1 1LE in a track setting even if it will definitely be faster in a straight line. On the other hand, maybe it will come close to the 1LE in lap time, but be closer to the ZL1 in comfort. Base price is $74k. This is even more than the ZL1 1LE, which is $71,695 for a 2019 base ZL1 1LE. And the 1LE is really not set up to be something you drive all the time on the street between the suspension and tires. I don't see Ford making that kind of sacrifice on the GT500, except perhaps as an option package, equivalent to 1LE.

[kevm14]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2020-fo ... 780356E243

Also from what I've read the GT500 is pretty good. The GT350s are pretty good, too. None of those are really particularly cheap and a top end GT500 with that $18,500 Carbon Fiber Track package (which this article basically says is worth it because it is effectively the GT500R), is like a $100,000 car.

Side note, a 2009 C6 ZR1 provides similar acceleration as this car. It may even provide a similar grand touring level of comfort.

Bogey is still around $50k for bottom of market on Auto Trader. Of course that is a relative term - these all look like nice cars to me.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... stRecord=0

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing

Actually let me put this in a different thread.

[kevm14]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mu ... 2D8C0DD349

So I think the verdict is in at this point. The GT350 and GT500 are very good cars. They are worthy of comparison to the best Camaros and Corvettes. Problem is, and despite any improvements the regular GT has seen, this greatness does NOT extend down the line the way it does for the Alpha platform cars.

[kevm14]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a3 ... 071&src=nl

Damn.

The result: zero to 60 mph in 3.6, and the quarter-mile in 11.4 at 132 mph.

It can't get off the line on a non-prepared track but still. 132 trap is good. That's like C7 ZR1 fast. But remember, this is like a $100k Mustang. So the standards are pretty high, no?

They make the obvious comparisons:

Compared to the ultra pony cars, the quickest Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 we've tested, which had a 10-speed automatic transmission, shot to 60 mph in 3.3 seconds but matches the GT500's 11.4-second quarter-mile time, with a substantially lower, 125-mph trap speed. The swiftest Dodge Challenger we've tested is a 797-hp Hellcat Redeye Widebody, which is even more hard pressed to find traction at launch—and is also substantially heavier. It achieves 60 mph in 3.6 seconds and passes the quarter-mile in 11.8 seconds, but at the same 125-mph trap speed as the Camaro.

The GT500 does flex its muscle in its post-quarter-mile performance, hitting 150 mph in 15.1 seconds. That's a massive 3.2 seconds quicker than the ZL1 and 2.8 quicker than the Challenger.

If you're wondering why the GT500 can't touch the Corvette's 2.8-second zero-to-60-mph time despite having nearly 300 more horsepower, that's precisely why Chevy switched to a mid-engine layout. A rear weight bias allows the Corvette to enjoy more traction and thus put the power down more effectively from a stop. The GT500's superior power-to-weight ratio shows up in the quarter-mile trap speed, where the GT500 is traveling 10-mph faster (132 mph versus the Corvette's 122 mph).

I always say I care about trap but damn this thing doesn't hook up on the street for crap. It still seems like a good driving car BUT, the ZL1 is WAAAY cheaper AND available used all the way back to the 2017 model year!! Advantage: GM. Yup.