So my new plan goes something like this:
1) Sell my V. Would like $12k as I think that is fair and reasonable but right at this time maybe not...
2) Acquire STS-V. Keep in garage.
3) Drive STS to 200k or for however long I decide to. Then get rid of it.
4) Buy V2, booting STS-V out of garage and demoting to daily driver. V2 goes in garage.
This plan could take years and that's fine. But I want to determine if this Warwick STS-V is anything I should even be considering or what the deal is. IF the car is not junk, and I can get it for like $12,500, that is an interesting proposition because it will probably still be worth that in 5 years. And since I wouldn't be daily driving it for most of that time, it will stay in nice shape. This gives me options if I change my mind later (i.e. just decide to sell the STS-V or something). Always good to have options.
Also, the whole thing sort of hinges on #1 and I'm not sure A) if I want to sell the car, but the fact that I'm considering it is interesting and B) if I CAN sell it right now.
Cadillac STS-V hunt
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
What's going on with this plan?
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
Nothing. The V2 is still on Autotrader. I am considering making my $18k offer and if he laughs at me, then great, I have closure. If he takes it, then great, sounds like a really good deal. Still haven't figured out the inspection angle. Or if I want to add this much stress to my household over this purchase that I don't need. But that's another story...
Wish I had the funds for two COVID19 deals. That would be sweet.
Also, 12 years ago or so I bought my Fleetwood under extenuating economic circumstances. We were in a recession, new car sales took a huge dump, but cash for clunkers hadn't happened. So I bought an admittedly sketchy Fleetwood with no plates in Lynn, MA for $1300 and the car turned out to be pretty awesome after some TLC (and additional money). In fact its value was so depressed that 2 years later AFTER a tree crushed the roof (I fixed it somewhat with a jack but still) a dealer gave me $2000 as a trade for the CTS-V.
While the stakes on that purchase were WAAAY lower, it was still a questionable buy (and car) but worked out great. Maybe the Warwick STS-V is more like that. I am still presuming that this Texas V2 is very nice and people are just afraid of the mileage combined with the mods plus economic uncertainty.
Wish I had the funds for two COVID19 deals. That would be sweet.
Also, 12 years ago or so I bought my Fleetwood under extenuating economic circumstances. We were in a recession, new car sales took a huge dump, but cash for clunkers hadn't happened. So I bought an admittedly sketchy Fleetwood with no plates in Lynn, MA for $1300 and the car turned out to be pretty awesome after some TLC (and additional money). In fact its value was so depressed that 2 years later AFTER a tree crushed the roof (I fixed it somewhat with a jack but still) a dealer gave me $2000 as a trade for the CTS-V.
While the stakes on that purchase were WAAAY lower, it was still a questionable buy (and car) but worked out great. Maybe the Warwick STS-V is more like that. I am still presuming that this Texas V2 is very nice and people are just afraid of the mileage combined with the mods plus economic uncertainty.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
So now that the very distracting V2 is out of the picture, I can maybe cross this STS-V off my list, too.
I don't see why they'd take $12,500 or whatever, honestly. But the circumstances seem pretty abnormal so who knows. And I have a Tech 2...
I just don't quite get what is being accomplished by slowly lowering the asking price on CL. If he's had offers, surely he would have entertained ones that were competitive with his bottom line. But like Bill said, if the guy isn't driving it, he's just paying annual tax on it. And according to the Carfax, the last record of any kind was a sale on 06/20/2017. If it is on dealer plates, does it need to maintain inspection compliance? I think it is off the road entirely.
I don't see why they'd take $12,500 or whatever, honestly. But the circumstances seem pretty abnormal so who knows. And I have a Tech 2...
I just don't quite get what is being accomplished by slowly lowering the asking price on CL. If he's had offers, surely he would have entertained ones that were competitive with his bottom line. But like Bill said, if the guy isn't driving it, he's just paying annual tax on it. And according to the Carfax, the last record of any kind was a sale on 06/20/2017. If it is on dealer plates, does it need to maintain inspection compliance? I think it is off the road entirely.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
Let's look at some values. Now I already admitted these guys can't be trusted to value rare cars like these. But that won't stop me from attempting to use them to my advantage in a purchase, to the extent it matters. And I'm not sure it matters except that every other buyer has access to the same information so there's that.
First some KBB values.
KBB Dealer
KBB Private
And just for kicks I ran it with "average" mileage which turned out to be 121k.
KBB Dealer @ 121k
And KBB Private @ 121k
The extra mileage is worth $5k in book value. So my job would be to pay a fraction of that penalty...otherwise I'm just paying market for a car.
But yeah KBB dealer at 46k is $14,400 which seems within deal-closing range of the $15,500 that is current up there. But that's too much. Private drops to $12,500 which is more where I want to be. It is at a dealer but explain to me the advantage of buying this car from this dealer...
OK. Let's look at Edmunds.
And Outstanding just to see.
Ah, now my $12,500 doesn't seem unreasonable at all. I'm sure this guy would be like "don't waste my time." Yeah buddy, you can do a good enough job of that on your own. 2017.....wtf.
First some KBB values.
KBB Dealer
KBB Dealer @ 121k
But yeah KBB dealer at 46k is $14,400 which seems within deal-closing range of the $15,500 that is current up there. But that's too much. Private drops to $12,500 which is more where I want to be. It is at a dealer but explain to me the advantage of buying this car from this dealer...
OK. Let's look at Edmunds.
I'm going with clean condition.Vehicle Condition
Outstanding
Exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition; requires no reconditioning.
Clean
Some normal wear but no major mechanical or cosmetic problems; may require limited reconditioning.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
I've posted this before.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing
07, looks decent, 109k, New Jersey.
Shockingly the Carfax is actually pretty good. Seems well maintained and owner 2 had it for like 10 years.
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/a ... Gr3cypvug4
But my point is they're asking $11,990. Autotrader says this is a "Good Price." So that's what I mean when I say if I got this 06 for $12,500 I would be pretty happy with that.
Also the pictures say NO DEALER PREP FEES! Right but:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... pe=listing
07, looks decent, 109k, New Jersey.
Shockingly the Carfax is actually pretty good. Seems well maintained and owner 2 had it for like 10 years.
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/a ... Gr3cypvug4
But my point is they're asking $11,990. Autotrader says this is a "Good Price." So that's what I mean when I say if I got this 06 for $12,500 I would be pretty happy with that.
Also the pictures say NO DEALER PREP FEES! Right but:
Then again this 06 could turn out to be a basket case. Sitting doesn't tend to be good for cars, and with the lower mileage, it may end up being due for the same repairs that any other STS-V might need from like 46k to 100k or whatever. Though the NJ car actually looks like it was pretty good needing literally nothing other than maintenance items its entire life. Interesting. And surprising.All Deals subject to $395 Dealer Doc Fee, plates and applicable state sales tax!
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
I looked at the interior pictures more closely. There are a few things I noticed and they're all negative.
- Car has no HUD. Sunroof, HUD and Rainsense was optional in 06-07 if wiki is to be believed. I want HUD (and sunroof which it has, and Rainsense for that matter). It's kind of hard to say HUD isn't "necessary" because the whole car isn't necessary. I like HUD and I want it...if for no other reason than low trim luxury cars are pointless (or ones lacking options).
- There is some kind of dongle thing to the left of the steering column that looks like one of those stupid aftermarket immobilizer sensors or whatever. Not a fan for multiple reasons. I will not likely buy a car with some ghetto alarm system. The factory alarm is more than sufficient for me. The car had standard remote start for crying out loud. No reason to add garbage and screw with the wiring.
- interior seems....more worn than I'd expect for 46k. I could cite a few areas. The ultra shiny Armor-all doesn't help make any judgements. But this could be one reason the car hasn't moved. Seems good on the exterior though from what I could see...
Conclusion: I'd like to drive it but this is probably not the car. These cars are rare but also sell slowly so I'm not in a rush. And I would take more miles on the car if it meant getting a car without these issues.
- Car has no HUD. Sunroof, HUD and Rainsense was optional in 06-07 if wiki is to be believed. I want HUD (and sunroof which it has, and Rainsense for that matter). It's kind of hard to say HUD isn't "necessary" because the whole car isn't necessary. I like HUD and I want it...if for no other reason than low trim luxury cars are pointless (or ones lacking options).
- There is some kind of dongle thing to the left of the steering column that looks like one of those stupid aftermarket immobilizer sensors or whatever. Not a fan for multiple reasons. I will not likely buy a car with some ghetto alarm system. The factory alarm is more than sufficient for me. The car had standard remote start for crying out loud. No reason to add garbage and screw with the wiring.
- interior seems....more worn than I'd expect for 46k. I could cite a few areas. The ultra shiny Armor-all doesn't help make any judgements. But this could be one reason the car hasn't moved. Seems good on the exterior though from what I could see...
Conclusion: I'd like to drive it but this is probably not the car. These cars are rare but also sell slowly so I'm not in a rush. And I would take more miles on the car if it meant getting a car without these issues.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
After a brief scare where the ad was deleted (rather than expired) but then I found it again, I decided I need to just go look at and drive this thing. As far as I can tell it's been for sale for like 2 years and I think he's had it for closer to 3. The point is, these cars are RARE and it is very unlikely to have such a local opportunity to actually drive one. I am not 100% sure I want an STS-V - I am only 85% sure.
Somehow I didn't notice before that it failed emissions TWICE, not just once. The first time, which I noticed, was October of 2015 at about 40,500 miles. Then it passed 62 miles later on the same day (in Mass). But again somehow I missed that it failed AGAIN exactly a year later in October 2016. Not sure if they only had a 1 year sticker or if that's just what Mass does normally. It would have had somewhere between 40k and 45k when it failed again. Oddly there's no record of it actually passing again though it was offered for sale at a Ford dealer and then finally sold from "Bourne's Auto Center." I can't imagine it sold without a valid sticker. This was in June 2017. So again we're going on 3 years with the current owner as far as I can tell, and no record of....anything. Just so strange.
Point is there was some issue there and I have no idea what it was, or if it was fixed. More reason to bring my Tech 2.
So I have an app't to look at the car at 2:30 this afternoon. My plan is roughly this, which could easily be diverted given a number of unknown factors:
- Take a closer look at the car inside and out. Maybe a little underneath if possible.
- DRIVE the car - this is arguably the #1 reason for going to look at it today. I did not ask if we could drive it as I didn't want to make him nervous. If I can't test drive it, then I have no clue how he is going to ever sell it. He should be able to slap a dealer plate on it anyway.
- The test drive will result in a few options. First, it may confirm that I really want one of these (or that I don't, but I highly doubt it). Second, it may confirm why this thing hasn't sold - so maybe I still want one but certainly not this one. I'm leaning away from this one for a number of reasons, including that I just don't think I can get it cheap enough to not be screwing myself over on the other end (either due to required repairs, or just inherent value, i.e. don't overpay, ever, especially for not the right car). If you can't turn around and sell for what you paid, or very nearly so, then you're paying too much. There is no inherent value in buying this car from this tiny-ass dealer so to me it's worth private sale, max. In fact it could be worth LESS than private sale and closer to wholesale, under the circumstances. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. He may have more into it and that's his problem, not mine.
- I would like to somehow scan with my Tech 2 but I will try to work that into the conversation like "hey I noticed it never passed emissions...mind if I throw my scanner on it?" Or "hey, I noticed every light on the dash is on, mind if I scan it?" Haha. But if not, that may only reveal that the computer has been reset and hasn't gone through any drive cycles which wouldn't tell me much of anything.
- If he still hasn't kicked me out of the shop there, and I actually like the car for some reason, I will bring some pricing printouts. Well I'll bring ones that I think support my case that I'd offer probably $12k max which is most likely unrealistic, and that's if we even get this far. Honestly the plan is not to buy this car I think but who knows. Aside from sampling an STS-V which is the #1 priority today, it may be good to register myself with this guy as a potential buyer if he gets desperate. Maybe he's had barely any hits. Or maybe he's turned away 50 low balls. Or maybe the car has serious issues and he's just trying to find the right sucker to buy it. I have NO idea. Who knows, maybe he'll see that I am a bit of a wrench and level with me on the car. This car may be worth closer to what he's asking under normal conditions but the history of it is highly abnormal. I don't want to pay more than it's worth private sale. If I do then the second I buy it I just lost thousands in value - why would I do that? If that's impossible then I will wait for the right private seller to come along, ideally a long term owner who's maintained it well. But it won't be local so I will have to get serious on my remote buying logistics/process. Or focus on the Charlotte market...and pay more, too. Sigh.
I was debating whether it would be better to show up in my V or my STS (or if it even matters). I am actually leaning toward the STS as that's the car I'd be potentially replacing and it just helps align my story with reality. Showing up in my V may be counterproductive to any type of low ball offer that may come out of my mouth. Hell I could show up in my Roadmaster. Or truck. Maybe it doesn't matter. Showing up in the STS may come off as a "dreamer," time-wasting endeavor whereas showing up in my V means I already have something of conceivably equalish value so it makes the possibility of a transaction a little more real, to him maybe? I dunno. Might be over thinking it.
Somehow I didn't notice before that it failed emissions TWICE, not just once. The first time, which I noticed, was October of 2015 at about 40,500 miles. Then it passed 62 miles later on the same day (in Mass). But again somehow I missed that it failed AGAIN exactly a year later in October 2016. Not sure if they only had a 1 year sticker or if that's just what Mass does normally. It would have had somewhere between 40k and 45k when it failed again. Oddly there's no record of it actually passing again though it was offered for sale at a Ford dealer and then finally sold from "Bourne's Auto Center." I can't imagine it sold without a valid sticker. This was in June 2017. So again we're going on 3 years with the current owner as far as I can tell, and no record of....anything. Just so strange.
Point is there was some issue there and I have no idea what it was, or if it was fixed. More reason to bring my Tech 2.
So I have an app't to look at the car at 2:30 this afternoon. My plan is roughly this, which could easily be diverted given a number of unknown factors:
- Take a closer look at the car inside and out. Maybe a little underneath if possible.
- DRIVE the car - this is arguably the #1 reason for going to look at it today. I did not ask if we could drive it as I didn't want to make him nervous. If I can't test drive it, then I have no clue how he is going to ever sell it. He should be able to slap a dealer plate on it anyway.
- The test drive will result in a few options. First, it may confirm that I really want one of these (or that I don't, but I highly doubt it). Second, it may confirm why this thing hasn't sold - so maybe I still want one but certainly not this one. I'm leaning away from this one for a number of reasons, including that I just don't think I can get it cheap enough to not be screwing myself over on the other end (either due to required repairs, or just inherent value, i.e. don't overpay, ever, especially for not the right car). If you can't turn around and sell for what you paid, or very nearly so, then you're paying too much. There is no inherent value in buying this car from this tiny-ass dealer so to me it's worth private sale, max. In fact it could be worth LESS than private sale and closer to wholesale, under the circumstances. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. He may have more into it and that's his problem, not mine.
- I would like to somehow scan with my Tech 2 but I will try to work that into the conversation like "hey I noticed it never passed emissions...mind if I throw my scanner on it?" Or "hey, I noticed every light on the dash is on, mind if I scan it?" Haha. But if not, that may only reveal that the computer has been reset and hasn't gone through any drive cycles which wouldn't tell me much of anything.
- If he still hasn't kicked me out of the shop there, and I actually like the car for some reason, I will bring some pricing printouts. Well I'll bring ones that I think support my case that I'd offer probably $12k max which is most likely unrealistic, and that's if we even get this far. Honestly the plan is not to buy this car I think but who knows. Aside from sampling an STS-V which is the #1 priority today, it may be good to register myself with this guy as a potential buyer if he gets desperate. Maybe he's had barely any hits. Or maybe he's turned away 50 low balls. Or maybe the car has serious issues and he's just trying to find the right sucker to buy it. I have NO idea. Who knows, maybe he'll see that I am a bit of a wrench and level with me on the car. This car may be worth closer to what he's asking under normal conditions but the history of it is highly abnormal. I don't want to pay more than it's worth private sale. If I do then the second I buy it I just lost thousands in value - why would I do that? If that's impossible then I will wait for the right private seller to come along, ideally a long term owner who's maintained it well. But it won't be local so I will have to get serious on my remote buying logistics/process. Or focus on the Charlotte market...and pay more, too. Sigh.
I was debating whether it would be better to show up in my V or my STS (or if it even matters). I am actually leaning toward the STS as that's the car I'd be potentially replacing and it just helps align my story with reality. Showing up in my V may be counterproductive to any type of low ball offer that may come out of my mouth. Hell I could show up in my Roadmaster. Or truck. Maybe it doesn't matter. Showing up in the STS may come off as a "dreamer," time-wasting endeavor whereas showing up in my V means I already have something of conceivably equalish value so it makes the possibility of a transaction a little more real, to him maybe? I dunno. Might be over thinking it.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
I am going to put the pictures on Onedrive for easier browsing though I may still throw them in the thread as I type.
119 pics. Well that includes pictures of each of the 34 history codes from him letting his battery run down to nothing. It happens.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!An5lt1BKvFKdqa11Y0N ... A?e=KzLjk8
I'll try to summarize and then go into more detail.
Exterior
The car presents well. It is exactly as good as it seemed to be in the pictures. I really didn't detect any flaws like scratches or paint chips. Some VERY minor stuff like probably a light door ding from a parking lot but I don't even remember where I saw that. The front bumper was resprayed but as a result had no chips at all. Hood was also very good, though a 46k hood should probably look pretty good on original paint anyway. Maybe just the front bumper was resprayed. They did it on the car because I could see evidence of masking below the headlights. But overall it looked good and the paint overall looked really nice. Headlights looked like 46k headlights. Not sure if they are original or not. Not sure how much it matters.
There was some sun fading on the rubber trim below the windows on the doors. My STS is doing the same thing. Again, I would have expected better for the mileage but I could live with it, especially on a black car anyway.
He said he put a brand new windshield in it. The original was delaminating in the corners. My STS is doing the same thing. It has no sticker but he would put one on as part of the process.
There was some misalignment with the sunroof but that is an adjustment. Of course my CTS-V is perfect at 122k and I've never adjusted it. Not really a red flag imo, just needs adjusting.
I tried to find body rust like in the rear wheel wells. I found nothing. This is good. Overall this car gets a high score for the exterior. It may be worth a little premium to get something with paint this nice.
Rear tires were Michelin and the fronts were Continental. Not the end of the world but matching is better. He said the brakes were brand new. Drilled and slotted rotors. I will go into the brakes more in the other sections.
Interior
Interior was also more or less as expected. Definitely more wear here. Weather stripping (ass dragging on the B-pillar, common on many generously proportioned Cadillac owners unfortunately), seats weren't as good as they should be for the mileage (they should basically be mint), some wear on one of the DIC buttons, some wear at the bottom ledge of the nav screen where you might rest your fingers. Certainly serviceable but the interior did not reflect the very low mileage. I'm sure many of these with twice the mileage show better in the interior. My CTS-V does.
The steering wheel also had some funny wear on the back of it. I expected a mint steering wheel for 46000 miles.
Interior gets a lower score as a result. Not worth paying extra for from an interior perspective.
That thing I thought was an alarm seemed to be some kind of phone doodad. It had a phone icon on it. The car should have Bluetooth so not sure why that is in there. But, less of a concern as a phone accessory than some kind of stupid immobilizer. There was no extra nonsense required to start it with the factory remote.
Dash was cracked worse than my STS. Pedals reflected the low mileage. Oh, looks like he put maybe 1,000 miles on it in 3 years. That's better than zero.
119 pics. Well that includes pictures of each of the 34 history codes from him letting his battery run down to nothing. It happens.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!An5lt1BKvFKdqa11Y0N ... A?e=KzLjk8
I'll try to summarize and then go into more detail.
Exterior
The car presents well. It is exactly as good as it seemed to be in the pictures. I really didn't detect any flaws like scratches or paint chips. Some VERY minor stuff like probably a light door ding from a parking lot but I don't even remember where I saw that. The front bumper was resprayed but as a result had no chips at all. Hood was also very good, though a 46k hood should probably look pretty good on original paint anyway. Maybe just the front bumper was resprayed. They did it on the car because I could see evidence of masking below the headlights. But overall it looked good and the paint overall looked really nice. Headlights looked like 46k headlights. Not sure if they are original or not. Not sure how much it matters.
There was some sun fading on the rubber trim below the windows on the doors. My STS is doing the same thing. Again, I would have expected better for the mileage but I could live with it, especially on a black car anyway.
He said he put a brand new windshield in it. The original was delaminating in the corners. My STS is doing the same thing. It has no sticker but he would put one on as part of the process.
There was some misalignment with the sunroof but that is an adjustment. Of course my CTS-V is perfect at 122k and I've never adjusted it. Not really a red flag imo, just needs adjusting.
I tried to find body rust like in the rear wheel wells. I found nothing. This is good. Overall this car gets a high score for the exterior. It may be worth a little premium to get something with paint this nice.
Rear tires were Michelin and the fronts were Continental. Not the end of the world but matching is better. He said the brakes were brand new. Drilled and slotted rotors. I will go into the brakes more in the other sections.
Interior was also more or less as expected. Definitely more wear here. Weather stripping (ass dragging on the B-pillar, common on many generously proportioned Cadillac owners unfortunately), seats weren't as good as they should be for the mileage (they should basically be mint), some wear on one of the DIC buttons, some wear at the bottom ledge of the nav screen where you might rest your fingers. Certainly serviceable but the interior did not reflect the very low mileage. I'm sure many of these with twice the mileage show better in the interior. My CTS-V does.
The steering wheel also had some funny wear on the back of it. I expected a mint steering wheel for 46000 miles.
Interior gets a lower score as a result. Not worth paying extra for from an interior perspective.
That thing I thought was an alarm seemed to be some kind of phone doodad. It had a phone icon on it. The car should have Bluetooth so not sure why that is in there. But, less of a concern as a phone accessory than some kind of stupid immobilizer. There was no extra nonsense required to start it with the factory remote.
Dash was cracked worse than my STS. Pedals reflected the low mileage. Oh, looks like he put maybe 1,000 miles on it in 3 years. That's better than zero.
Re: Cadillac STS-V hunt
Engine bay
He allowed me to cold start it. I checked the oil. About 3/4 up the crosshatch. Power steering fluid seemed good and smelled fine. Coolant seemed good. Engine bay looked clean and as it should. It fired right up in only like 2 cranks. Sounded perfectly normal and healthy.
Other stuff in shop
Before I moved onto scanning he was telling me he has some other interesting stuff, including a later model Escalade (I guess that's interesting).
I spent about 30 seconds looking at them and got back to business. These cars seemed to be more in his collection than for sale. I guess he's a bad dealer because he tends to hang onto stuff...but he clearly likes cars.
Tech 2
He welcomed me to scan but did note the battery had gone dead. It has a new one. So I was expecting to find history codes but not 34 of them!
So looking at them more closely, they are all B, C and U codes. Not a single P code, even a history code. I would wager that the emissions problem it had previously was solved. Now the C codes could set a StabiliTrack error or whatever but this car had no warning lights whatsoever while driving. And again most of these passed anyway. I could probably have created some leverage if I was unethical with a private seller but this guy wasn't that stupid.
He allowed me to cold start it. I checked the oil. About 3/4 up the crosshatch. Power steering fluid seemed good and smelled fine. Coolant seemed good. Engine bay looked clean and as it should. It fired right up in only like 2 cranks. Sounded perfectly normal and healthy.
Before I moved onto scanning he was telling me he has some other interesting stuff, including a later model Escalade (I guess that's interesting).
Tech 2
He welcomed me to scan but did note the battery had gone dead. It has a new one. So I was expecting to find history codes but not 34 of them!
So looking at them more closely, they are all B, C and U codes. Not a single P code, even a history code. I would wager that the emissions problem it had previously was solved. Now the C codes could set a StabiliTrack error or whatever but this car had no warning lights whatsoever while driving. And again most of these passed anyway. I could probably have created some leverage if I was unethical with a private seller but this guy wasn't that stupid.