Garden tractor acquisition

Mower trouble? Are 2-cycle engines the bane of your existence?
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr_QhLAC6ec

Lost a pulley....well the bearings just...ejected. So that was cool. Somehow the thing still drove with the belt rubbing directly on what was left of the inner bearing race.

Ordered some stuff. Pulley should arrive on Sat. Some other stuff Tuesday. So if we have real snow forecasted, I may rush the install this weekend and get it functional and tidy it up later with all the right pieces.

Side note, had an interesting comment on the other video about my engine upgrade. Bill actually brought this up before and I was never concerned about it, for the record. Here is what the guy said:
SLEDGE HAMMER
8 hours ago
I don’t see any reason to install a larger more powerful engine. These are lawn tractors not garden tractors as I am sure you realize. By installing a more powerful engine your going to have other issues you don’t have now. Such as putting more stress on the blower belt causing it to fail and there not cheap plus time of replacing it. The tractor was designed for a max amount of Hp so you will also add more stress on the transmission and other driveline issues. It’s impressive how well it did considering how wet the snow is so with a power snow you will be surprised how much better it will work it will throw snow so much further than expected. In my op for what it’s worth I wouldn’t mess around replacing the engine it’s not going to work much better in fact it will have excessive power you can’t really use. I purchased my first Simplicity tractor back in 1967 it was a used 1964 Simplicity Landlord with a 42 inch single stage blower and the older cast iron 10 hp engine that worked great. I now own a 4 wheel drive simplicity with its 28 hp engine with all the attachments and it’s a beast. I am now 74 so my years using it are numbered. Seriously consider leaving the engine alone if anything find a good used tractor already with the larger frame + engine + transmission that’s already designed to handle the added hp. Take care
My two replies just to capture here:
kevin9c1
8 hours ago (edited)
Thanks for the thoughts. My justification is pretty simple. First this entire machine also shipped with a 16 hp engine. I don't see adding 2 more putting anything over the line and certainly not from a transmission perspective. This transmission can't stall this engine so it already is using all it can get. For the blower I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 6000 series has an available 17 or 18 hp engine and if so, I'm also safe. And finally, the extra power will keep the RPMs up and throw the snow farther which is critical in the big area in front of my garage.
kevin9c1
4 hours ago (edited)
There was in fact a Simplicity 6118 (and a 6218) and I am 99% sure this blower is compatible with them. They used the same engine I have sitting in my basement (Briggs opposed 18hp). So I should have no issues at all.
So there you go. I knew it would be fine but I didn't know it would be THIS fine. Literally the 18hp engine I have in my basement was intended to drive the 42" single stage blower I have on the Deutz. Everything should be happy.

Proof (Simplicity 6218 garden tractor):
http://www.tractordata.com/lawn-tractor ... sions.html
Briggs & Stratton 422707
gasoline
2-cylinder
air-cooled vertical-shaft horizontally-opposed
Displacement: 694 cc
42.38 ci
Reply from the seller of the 18hp engine in my basement:
This motor is good to go. You just have to change the starter which i have. Model 422707,Type 1214-01,code 9305075b.
Linkage of my thrower to the 6218. Shows 1690548.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks ... e-stage-42

And that's what I have (or the 1691522 but same thing):
20190428_155947.jpg
How's that for random chance?? Not that it matters but it should make all the nervous people calm down. It's just a lawn tractor, not the space shuttle.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Got my pulley already. But the washer and belt guard won't be until next week.
20210204_115736.jpg
But this should be all I need to get it functional with the addition of some "over the counter" hardware as needed. Now to check that forecast...
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Disassembly was easy. The nut was a little rounded from the pulley spinning on it I think but I was able to slip a 9/16" open wrench on the nut, and a 14mm box wrench on the bolt on top and it came off pretty easy. Wasn't really that tight, nor was it rusted up in any way.

Here's the stack that came off:
20210206_083812.jpg

They did have like 3 washers stacked above the pulley which is incorrect per the diagram. I also saw what I think is the correct extra thick washer that I ordered so I see no need for the magical $5 washer (sigh). However I think it was stacked up like this to help the pulley align better with the belt due to how worn out and wobbly the clutch bracket is. So I may reinstall with some washers on the top - just hope there is enough room for the belt guard on the bottom.

Assuming this is the stock bolt. I actually don't know how to remove the bolt without removing the entire clutch bracket because of how close it is to the frame of the tractor.
20210206_083829.jpg

New pulley vs old. Seems identical.
20210206_084455_HDR.jpg

Trying to get a clear shot of the bearing numbers just in case....says PEER 6203-RLD but it needs to be 2RLD to get a seal on both sides.
20210206_084503.jpg
20210206_084511.jpg
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20210206_084607_HDR.jpg
And here it is: https://www.amazon.com/Peer-Bearing-620 ... ial&sr=1-3

About half the price of the new pulley, FWIW.


For the initial fitment test I did use the proper single thick washer on top of the pulley. Then I had a flat washer, lock washer and the nut on the bottom. I think I may run out of bolt length because the belt stop needs to be spaced away from the pulley by 3 washers according to the diagram so this may be interesting. Really don't want to run a longer bolt. And if I have to remove the clutch bracket just to get the bolt out, I would just replace the bushing that is worn and make the bracket tight, negating the need to change the pulley configuration...
20210206_085526.jpg
20210206_085537.jpg

With the pulley up where it is supposed to be, the belt slips right off every time I disengage the pedal. The belt guard would help but the pulley also ends up too high because of the wobbly bracket. So some combination of washers top and bottom is what I'll end up with given the fixed length of the bolt. You can see how many threads of the bolt are exposed on the bottom. Well, that's probably 2 extra washers + the belt stop worth of space so not sure I'll be able to add anything on top. I will figure out the best combination of stuff. I think I do want that guard on there though.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Didn't take long for the mail to come. Bonus: I got my $5 washer anyway.
20210206_092954.jpg
20210206_092922.jpg

Now to try my stacking skills and see what the best config is with the bolt length that I have.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I wasn't able to stack anything additional on top of the pulley to lower it to help with the alignment. As you can see there was barely enough bolt for sort of the minimum amount of stuff. The belt stop is just barely off the pulley (with two washers), and there is just enough room below it for a flat washer, lock washer and the nut. There are no threads left, as you can see.
20210206_102310.jpg

I really like having that belt stop in there, since it was missing before. It does what it is supposed to do and keeps the belt from falling off the pulley when the brake/clutch pedal is pressed down.

I did finally test it and it drives fine. It is still doing that jerky thing but it seems to be caused by lash in the axle/diff. Hopefully nothing to worry about. I don't know if it is exacerbated by the liquid ballast in the rear tires. I feel like it started around the time I did that. If so, I don't think I have anything to worry about.

Video of the final product: https://youtu.be/QzNX3QogHEE
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I also installed my new tach. This thing is sweet and as usual I wish I did this when I first got my machines.

There isn't much to say about the installation. I just tucked the sensor wire into stuff to keep it from dangling. I also cut off the excess after wrapping it around the right side plug wire 5 times. Then with the included zipties I secured both ends of the wrapping to keep it tight. That's about it, other than applying the velcro to mount the tach in the desired location.
20210206_114301.jpg
20210206_114306_HDR.jpg
20210206_114310_HDR.jpg
20210206_114313_HDR.jpg
20210206_114319.jpg
20210206_114339.jpg
20210206_114346.jpg

The default engine setting was right out of the box. It depends on number of cylinders and 2 or 4 stroke. Because this is an opposed twin, it does a waste spark thing and each plug fires every time, so I think that's why the single cylinder setting works. If it was a V-twin I think it would need a different setting.

When off it defaults to showing engine hours (and minutes). When the engine runs, it automatically switches to engine RPM. Then you shut it off and it goes back to hours. I think you can change all this behavior but it's good the way it is. One thing that's odd with it is it is tricky to turn off. Unfortunately I don't think it powers off automatically which would have made a lot of sense. You have to hold both buttons down but it seems very picky to get it right. Without turning it off I don't think the battery would last nearly as long. At least the hours are held between battery changes.

It also has a service reminder. You can program any number of hours you want from 1-2000 and it will count down. You can also display the service menu and it will show the hours/minutes remaining. I set it to 25 hours even though the manual says 50 for an oil change. It's old. I can give it a break.

Speaking of, I also changed the oil. I never changed it from last year because I anticipated swapping the engine. So I've used it 2 or 3 times and decided it was due. I am currently running Chevron Delo 400LE 5W-40 synthetic and it seems to be doing well with it.

I was showing Bill how easy it is on these. Just remove the drain cap with a 13/16" socket and let the oil flow into something. Since this isn't a pressure lube engine, there is also no filter.
20210206_134720.jpg

So it's all set for the rest of the winter, I hope.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:50 pm Side note, had an interesting comment on the other video about my engine upgrade. Bill actually brought this up before and I was never concerned about it, for the record. Here is what the guy said:
SLEDGE HAMMER
8 hours ago
I don’t see any reason to install a larger more powerful engine. These are lawn tractors not garden tractors as I am sure you realize. By installing a more powerful engine your going to have other issues you don’t have now. Such as putting more stress on the blower belt causing it to fail and there not cheap plus time of replacing it. The tractor was designed for a max amount of Hp so you will also add more stress on the transmission and other driveline issues. It’s impressive how well it did considering how wet the snow is so with a power snow you will be surprised how much better it will work it will throw snow so much further than expected. In my op for what it’s worth I wouldn’t mess around replacing the engine it’s not going to work much better in fact it will have excessive power you can’t really use. I purchased my first Simplicity tractor back in 1967 it was a used 1964 Simplicity Landlord with a 42 inch single stage blower and the older cast iron 10 hp engine that worked great. I now own a 4 wheel drive simplicity with its 28 hp engine with all the attachments and it’s a beast. I am now 74 so my years using it are numbered. Seriously consider leaving the engine alone if anything find a good used tractor already with the larger frame + engine + transmission that’s already designed to handle the added hp. Take care
My two replies just to capture here:
kevin9c1
8 hours ago (edited)
Thanks for the thoughts. My justification is pretty simple. First this entire machine also shipped with a 16 hp engine. I don't see adding 2 more putting anything over the line and certainly not from a transmission perspective. This transmission can't stall this engine so it already is using all it can get. For the blower I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 6000 series has an available 17 or 18 hp engine and if so, I'm also safe. And finally, the extra power will keep the RPMs up and throw the snow farther which is critical in the big area in front of my garage.
kevin9c1
4 hours ago (edited)
There was in fact a Simplicity 6118 (and a 6218) and I am 99% sure this blower is compatible with them. They used the same engine I have sitting in my basement (Briggs opposed 18hp). So I should have no issues at all.
So there you go. I knew it would be fine but I didn't know it would be THIS fine. Literally the 18hp engine I have in my basement was intended to drive the 42" single stage blower I have on the Deutz. Everything should be happy.
This sucks. Either he deleted his own comment which deleted my replies, it was flagged by a user and deleted, or it was deleted automatically....good thing I copied the comments here. Weird.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:39 pm It also has a service reminder. You can program any number of hours you want from 1-2000 and it will count down. You can also display the service menu and it will show the hours/minutes remaining. I set it to 25 hours even though the manual says 50 for an oil change. It's old. I can give it a break.
Actually the Simplicity manual says 25 hours....
Screenshot_20210207-130753.png
And the Briggs manual agrees. Unless it is a pressure lube engine then you can do 50.
Screenshot_20210207-131334.png
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

An actual test of the new pulley, plus a test of my new tach while snow blowing.

https://youtu.be/axiMmfs3Ozk
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Thinking about changing the hydro fluid in the Deutz.

It would appear that the best match is an SAE30 non-detergent, such as:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... l-5-gallon
A Non-Detergent Oil that is designed for use where additives are not required. Recommended for straight mineral oil lubrication. Not recommended for use in automotive engines.
Well there you go. That's basically what the hydro calls for.

And if that wasn't enough:
☆☆☆☆☆
☆☆☆☆☆5 out of 5 stars. · 2 months ago
good for my mower
This oil is good for Eaton hydro that have pump and motor are built together , like used on older grasshopper and woods zero turn mowers.
Eaton hydro. I guess that settles it. It may just make operation smoother so probably worth a try. I wasn't going to touch it until I suspected it was necessary. Now I feel like it is necessary. This machine is like a test bed for maintenance that I might eventually also do on my Simplicity. I'm not sure if snow blower usage or summer lawn mowing is harder on the hydro. The summer is certainly way, way hotter conditions, and I'd think more hours of use (weekly for a good chunk). But I think there is more load on it for snow blowing. The other ironic thing is I'd argue snow removal is way more critical than keeping the grass mowed....so maybe I have my priorities all mixed up.
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