What's a good appliance these days?

There is plenty to go wrong here, but you can repair it
kevm14
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

Now onto microwaves, over the range.
Whirlpool and Frigidaire are among the more reliable over-the-range microwave brands, while Samsung is more prone to breaks compared to other brands. In fact, due to its failure rate, Samsung over-the-range microwaves can't be recommended by Consumer Reports at this time. These conclusions are based on our failure rate estimates for 5-year-old over-the-range microwaves, gathered from 35,681 subscribers who purchased a new over-the-range microwave between 2008 and 2016. Our statistical model estimates failure rates for over-the-range microwaves not covered by a service contract. Differences of less than 3 points aren't meaningful. Models within a brand may vary, and changes in design or manufacturer may affect future reliability. Still, choosing a brand with a lower estimated failure rate can improve your odds of getting a dependable model.
microwave brand ratings.png
Damn, look at Whirlpool go! So much for preconceived notions.

Oh yeah and Samsung appliances are out.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

It is looking like I may not be doing matching appliances. I know matching is a thing but I don't really care - they will all be stainless anyway.
bill25
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by bill25 »

So basically Samsung and LG are pretty bad. I really think it depends on what you get. They all make a range. I have been looking at washer/dryer sets and I have pretty much decided on Maytag. Their higher end models have 10 year warranties and are supposedly "professional grade". I have Kenmore Elite stove (gas), and refrigerator. I don't like either. The stove is ok except for needing a new igniter after like 5 years, and we don't use the inside of the stove much at all, so pretty sad... The fridge totally sucks and I will never get another Kenmore fridge ever. Ever.

I have a KitchenAid Dishwasher, and it seems pretty good.
kevm14
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

I can look up washer/dryer stuff.

I hear you on the fridge but imo you can't totally penalize the brand for what is just a poor layout. I am sure you wouldn't have purchased that fridge. Or did you? Anyway I'm just saying that kind of thing is actually something you can check out before you buy so you wouldn't likely make that mistake, right? I wouldn't avoid the entire brand, unless there is something else you don't like about it. Is it even a 36" wide unit? If it's like 34" or something, then I am not surprised the freezer is narrow on a side by side.
bill25
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by bill25 »

I don't like the layout as you stated, but it is also really "cheap" everywhere else. There is a broken shelf in the freezer, the ice machine drops ice minutes after you are done getting ice,, right on the floor, the external plastic trim falls off, the plastic bottom grate comes off on the floor, the whole thing is just junk. The plastic housing for the external ice dispenser, gone... Kenmore "Elite" really???
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

I didn't realize all that stuff.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

Came across some information.

https://money.usnews.com/money/personal ... ge-to-last
The National Association of Home Builders did a survey of manufacturers, trade associations and researchers in 2007 and produced a report called “The Life Expectancy of Home Components,” with estimates of life spans for everything from appliances to windows. Based on the association’s research and the research of others, here is how long you can expect these 10 home components to last.

Roofs: Slate, copper and tile roofs can last more than 50 years. Homeowners with wood shake roofs should expect them to last about 30 years, while fiber cement shingles last about 25 years and asphalt shingle/composition roofs last about 20 years, the NAHB found. Climate and weather conditions, such as snow, hail and hurricanes, can cut the life span of all types of roofs. 

Air conditioning system: These last 10 to 15 years. Having your unit serviced every year or two, keeping filters clean and trimming bushes around the outdoor unit can keep your it working longer, but eventually the components wear out.

Water heater: A conventional electric or gas water heater typically lasts about 10 years. If you have a tankless water heater, expect it to stick around for about 20 years.

Appliances: Expect most popular appliances to last no more than 15 years: refrigerators (six to 15 years), ranges (10 to 15 years), washers and dryers (eight to 12 years) and dishwashers (eight to 10 years), Angie’s List reports. The NAHB estimates the life span of a microwave to be nine years. In its report, the NAHB also noted that appliances are often replaced before they quit working because consumers want new styles or technology.

Furnace: A furnace lasts 15 to 20 years. If your furnace is nearing the end of its life, upgrading to a newer, more energy-efficient model can also cut your heating bills.

Decks: Because of weather, the life span of a deck varies. In optimal conditions, a wood deck can last 20 years, the NAHB study found. A deck can last 20 to 25 years in dry areas, but is likely to last only 10 to 15 years in the South, where there is more rain and humidity.

Doors: Exterior doors made of fiberglass, steel and wood will last for decades, or the lifetime of the house, as will closet doors, according to the NAHB study. Screen doors last about 40 years, and vinyl doors typically last about 20 years.

Floors: Wood floors last 100 years or more, as do marble and slate floors if they are maintained well. Tile floors can last 75 to 100 years, and terrazzo lasts more than 75 years. Linoleum lasts about 25 years and vinyl up to 50 years, while laminate floors have a life expectancy of 15 to 25 years. Most carpet needs to be replaced every eight to 10 years, even if it’s maintained well.

Gutters: Aluminum gutters last about 20 years, while copper gutters last about 50 years.

Windows: Wood windows can last more than 30 years, while aluminum windows are expected to last 15 to 20 years.
Here is the report itself (also attached): https://www.interstatebrick.com/sites/d ... onents.pdf

An article putting some of that information in context, like where the information actually comes from: http://msaworld.com/mwm-exclusive-manuf ... ort-lives/
“Every two years or so, we contact the manufacturers and ask them how long buyers can expect them to last. It is a very small sample,” said Rose Quint, assistant communications manager at NAHB.

Were any other sources contacted, such as consumers who know how long they’ve had their appliances, or repair professionals who see them in homes? No, Quint said. Nor was anything asked about whether the appliances being taken out of use could have been repaired. However it is common at appliance service dealer meetings to hear complaints of lost jobs resulting from customers seeking second opinions from the manufacturers and being told that they should replace as other components will soon fail. And on products newer than the NAHB lifespan statistics indicate.

The only source polled by NAHB was the one most interested in new sales through replacement.
Alternate source of this info: https://www.thisoldhouse.com/ideas/how-long-stuff-lasts
In fact, the Association of Home Appliances Manufacturers says most appliances are not junked at all. A majority are sold, traded in, left behind in a move or given away, and they faithfully serve second or even third owners. As a result, according to the trade group, how long these household workhorses actually last is impossible to say.

Americans spend more than $15 billion a year on new appliances. Very expensive, restaurant-quality appliances are increasingly popular. The estimated retail prices above, however, are for products from Whirlpool and General Electric, two widely available brands (check the price of dozens of models on their Websites). You can spend a lot more if you want.
Another article referencing the NAHB info specifically for kitchen stuff: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kitchen-ap ... they-last/
Kitchen Components
Cabinets: 50 years
Compactor: 6 years
Countertop (natural stone): Lifetime
Countertop (marble): 20 years
Dishwasher: 9 years
Disposer, Food Waste: 12 years
Faucet: 15 years
Microwave Oven: 9 years
Range, Electric: 13 years
Range, Gas: 15 years
Refrigerator: 13 years
Sink (enamel steel): 5-10 years
Attachments
nahb20study20of20life20expectancy20of20home20components.pdf
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kevm14
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Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

Also meant to post a few things I learned from CR.

One is that the "professional style" stuff may work the same, or worse, than normal appliances, despite their extremely high price tag. Not that I was in the market for that stuff but it makes me feel better I guess.

Another one is I started looking into ranges with inductive cooktops. These seem awesome. In same cases, they boil water not just as fast as gas, but up to 50% faster. They have all the quick heat control of gas, but are so much more efficient in terms of heat into the room (and heat of the cook surface after cooking) because they only heat the cookware through magnetic field. The downside is that you need cookware that is ferrous (magnetic) and apparently none of mine is. So there would be a one time upfront additional cost of "induction-compatible" cookwear. Cast iron works great, of course.

The other concern I have is that I fear induction cooktops are probably the most electronically complex, and they are more expensive than radiant flat top systems. Gas is out for me anyway because A) I would need propane, not doing that and B) doing an over-range microwave - I'd really need a real hood for gas.
kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

I learned more things, on ranges since this is the only appliance I will buy that may very well be 4 figures. Dishwasher will probably be Bosch pending some discussion at Wickford Appliance. Microwave can be whatever....maybe same brand as the range, maybe not. Don't care too much.

Ranges are kind of like refrigerators (for some reason) in that there are a few styles and the price ranges are huge. Here's what I learned.

The main three styles are:
Freestanding. This is the conventional style that most people are used to. They have the controls at the back and have finished sides to fit in even at the end of a cabinet row. There are gaps between the cooktop and counter and most people are used to this, as I said. These are the cheapest.

Slide-in. I didn't realize that "slide-in" was a specific term but now I recognize it. Slide-in means the controls are at the front and the rear has no protrusion for controls. The cooktop overlaps the counter top on the sides which looks much more integrated, and often times it also overlaps at the back which would require a different countertop cut. It would also look pretty awesome with a continuous run of granite behind the range. Some models are "slide-in style" with controls at the front but are actually made to fit into a freestanding cut out. These tend to be priced as a real slide-in so for me I'd just assume go full slide-in and have it do the proper overlap thing with the countertop.

Drop-in. This would be the most premium before you enter the "wall oven and cook top" situation. This is the most integrated of the above options with the top being just like a slide-in. But also the range also "floats" with an extra cabinet panel below the range, where the pots/pans or warming drawer would normally be. Kind of looks like a wall oven and cooktop, just all in the same place. If I had to guess, my scope of work does not cover these extra cabinet/counter stuff so I may just drop this, even though it looks the nicest.

So what I think I want is slide-in. Unfortunately, combining slide-in with induction puts me at $2,000 at the bottom end from my research, unless there is some special sale/discount. So if I really want slide-in, I may have to concede and get the standard radiant cooktop That would also save another $400 since we wouldn't need new pots/pans.

https://blog.yaleappliance.com/freestan ... ws-ratings

My budget can support around $1,500 but I could stretch a little if it really upgraded the function and aesthetic.

For example:
GE PHS930SLSS, rated 83 at CR, induction.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Profile-5-E ... 1000301387
$2,339 on sale at 10% off. And add $400 for new cookware. That blows the budget. This is like the cheapest slide-in induction range I could find on Lowes.

Or this, which is the cheapest on Sears.com
Frigidaire Gallery FGIS3065PF, not rated at CR. Induction.
https://www.sears.com/frigidaire-galler ... ockType=G2
$2,070. So again, $2,000 is bottom of market for slide-in and add $400 for cookware and that is $2,400. Just not sure I can justify that.

Frigidaire FFIF3054TS. Induction.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Frigidaire-4-E ... 1000455513
$900 and rated 82 on CR. But again there are compromises. Aside from the fact that I think a freestanding is a mistake with a brand new kitchen, it is only 4 burner (I like the more premium ones that have like a warming burner on them), doesn't have real convection (it has a "fake" convection which doesn't work that well), and a very flimsy pots/pans drawer. The higher end slide-in stuff tends to have warming drawers instead which is cool. This unit falls into the category of bottom end induction. If induction was the most important thing next to the budget, this would be a contender. But thinking about it, I think the integrated look and not having to buy new cookwear is actually better. Which brings me to the slide-in radiant surface units.

Bosch HEI8054U. Radiant.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-800-Seri ... n/50154254
About $2,000 and rated 79 on CR. 5 elements, warming drawer, real convection. No new pots and pans. It is even advertised to fit in a freestanding cut out though the cooktop doesn't sit right on the countertop but rather a little above it. Not sure how this factors. Maybe this is considered a hybrid as the controls are on the front but it kind of fits like a freestanding. Getting the countertop cut in the back for a true slide-in is the most premium of the options I can really afford but that limits future replacements to similar types.

I think I need to go to an appliance store.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: What's a good appliance these days?

Post by kevm14 »

Some pictures.

Here is an Electrolux slide-in induction range. You can see how the counter is seamless at the back and the whole thing integrates with the counter on the sides. I like this look.
electrolux-slidein-induction-range.png
Here is what a drop-in range looks like. The most integrated look. It is probably out though I have asked KCCNE if my contract would include this option.
spin_prod_174326001.jpg
And freestanding.
free-standing-range.jpg
It's kind of an appliance snob thing but the reality is I am paying an assload for this new kitchen and I want it to look as upscale as possible for the budget. And I think freestanding ranges look "regular." If I was doing a kitchen refresh instead of a complete remodel, that would be an entirely different conversation.
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