96 Roadmaster no A/C

You should know what this is. If not, you probably roll your windows down a lot.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

Decided to take the Roadmaster to TSC and wouldn't you know, the A/C started off on the weak side and went away completely during my errand.

I got home thinking that it needed a charge even though I remarked when I got it that it was on the original charge and doing great. Maybe my luck ran out. Well...I dumped a small amount from a can in it and then realized that the charge was not the problem. The compressor clutch has like...rusted or failed or something.

Here it is engaged but still not actually turning the compressor rotor. Crazy.
20190527_152618.jpg
And here it is not engaged. You can see where these large rivets would have attached the rotor to the front part of the clutch. They are all missing or something. Very strange. That black ring seems to be some kind of rubber isolator.
20190527_152753.jpg
So it will need a new clutch. Reman for $68 or new for $85. Not bad.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... nhSA%3D%3D

Add that to the list of things. Not really an emergency though we are entering A/C weather here, or at least the potential for it.

So that was a fail. Instead I dumped like something under 2 cans into the Ram and the A/C works well in there now.
Adam
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by Adam »

Did you take the photo through a dusty barn window?
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

Here is what Adam's old 94 Caprice engine/compressor looks like since it is still in Ed's garage. Definitely the same style as my Roadmaster.
20190601_164623.jpg
20190601_164647.jpg
20190601_164655.jpg
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

I got greedy and took a look at this after doing the SRX. That turned into...doing it. Reason I forced it is I wanted the A/C to work should I need (or want) to use the car in the summer heat. Seemed reasonable.

My electronic FSM has powertrain stuff (LT1 and 4L60E) but not B-body stuff. But I found a Youtube video from Ghetto Wagon, someone who has been around B-bodies as long as I have. Anyway I watched that and it seemed pretty straight forward. There was no nut holding on the clutch. Not sure if that is normal - I don't remember seeing a nut in the video FWIW. I had a difficult time threading in the tool to pull the clutch. Just filled with junk and rust. Took using air, PB, and attempting to thread then blowing off the threads to clean a little at a time. Very tedious. Eventually I got it threaded in and the impact helped with that. Pulled that out pretty easily.

The pulley is just pressed on the compressor. Ghetto Wagon just pried it off. So I tried that. It was stuck. I tried my foot on the pry bar. Something popped. Oh god. I forgot to remove the snap ring and it just completely broke off the ring that is part of the compressor housing. I blame....carelessness, the heat and youtube videos which I only watched quickly and went back to the job. That's why I like step by step instructions that I can reference as I go. As a result of being perhaps not at my best I forgot a step. So that's broken. Then I pried off the electromagnet.

I decided to try to install the new parts anyway. I think pulley alignment would have been screwed up and it would have dragged on the clutch. First I tried to push the electromagnet on. Again, not sure how to do this so I just pushed it on as far as it would go and tapped it on with a 1/2" extension. That chipped away some plastic or something from the part. No manual, not sure how it should be done.

Next I tried to install the pulley. I figured out the tool, and used the bearing. It was hard going. At one point I had pinched the stupid coolant pipe bracket and that may have caused, or contributed to, what happened next. It was pressing on not straight (maybe due to the coolant pipe bracket). I backed it off and tried again. Just wasn't going. Eventually I realized I had stripped out my compressor shaft threads. So...fuck this job. Car needs a new A/C compressor. Probably should have listened to Ed in the first place but the car has a full R134a charge so it will be more effort to do the compressor.

Yeah this really pissed me off. Oh, and that goddamn fan is not going back on this engine. Broke the shroud in two places anyway removing the bolts as Ed predicted. I removed all the stuff already (except the long-ass water pump bolts...whoops, put those back until I get shorter bolts then I can take the fan bearing bracket off).

So need to order:
- A/C compressor
- Innovative Wiring kit for fan(s) (I assume just primary as the secondary is already connected)
- Primary fan from Caprice
- Upper radiator mount from Caprice (it is an LT1 part)
- Two mounting bolts for primary fan. One for into the radiator end tank and one on the top. So I will play the thread game as usual and figure that out.

Should never have touched this today...but I was sort of committed to the job so perhaps it would have gone differently if I knew more about the R&R instructions.

Irritated I have to discharge the car's factory R134a. I hope it works as well as it did before all this mess. I will probably just do it to the atmosphere. I will also need to collect the oil from the compressor and measure it per GM. Once again, I would love some instructions on how that works. From memory, it is something like, drain it out, measure it, put back the same quantity that drained out. If less than some amount drains out, put back a set amount that is greater than that like 3oz or something.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

So need to order:
- A/C compressor
- Innovative Wiring kit for fan(s) (I assume just primary as the secondary is already connected)
- Primary fan from Caprice
- Upper radiator mount from Caprice (it is an LT1 part)
- Two mounting bolts for primary fan. One for into the radiator end tank and one on the top. So I will play the thread game as usual and figure that out.
Ordered compressor. ACDELCO 1522135, labeled as original equipment. $218 shipped.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 218&jsn=15

Ordered Innovating Wiring fan harness. It does replace the secondary fan wiring as well to make it 100% factory. I would have been happier with a kit that is only what is needed. $163 shipped. The quality of his products is top notch though and there is a fair amount of labor in making these.
http://innovativewiring.com/?page_id=266
primary-fan.jpg
http://innovativewiring.com/iw/wp-conte ... RY-KIT.pdf

Interestingly I am actually going to be in CT today so I will see if I can make a trip to the Caprice and grab my first official parts off of it since it went over there.
kevm14
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Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

I have my upper radiator mount and primary cooling fan from my Caprice.

The Caprice is....not doing well. It runs fine if you jump it. The paint on the hood is bubbling. It just looks really bad...
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

Got my compressor. Looks like it ships with no oil. Also despite the picture showing the fancier, more isolated clutch style, it shipped with the style my Caprice had. At first I was annoyed but the thing is, that clutch still worked on my Caprice (after some tweaking to close the gap a bit). And if my Roadmaster had that style, it probably would still be working. So...who cares.

Second, I looked into it and I am not going to use the oil Ed generously let me use. Why? Because it turns out PAG is hygroscopic just like brake fluid. I don't know why the moisture couldn't boil out after a vacuum purge but to be safe I ordered my own AC Delco PAG 150 (16oz), which is pure PAG, no additive. I also got my mineral oil (SAE 525) for the seals. BTW, it is the same reason PAG is not recommended for seals. The hygroscopic characteristic can actually lead to corrosion at joints. Don't want that...

Also I need Adam to shoot me pictures of the R&R so I can get a feel for it. Ed says there's an annoying bracket at the rear to stabilize the compressor against belt loads and torque. But it was missing on his because his car was a little molested. I'm sure it is there on mine.

Don't know that this job will be a priority this weekend though. It may sit for a couple weeks...or I could work on the fan out in the driveway for the fun of it.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Re ... thetic-oil

So there you go. Looks like this is similar to brake fluid chemistry.
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

Made marginal progress mainly because I felt like tinkering but not finishing the job. Perfect. Plus I gave Ed my mineral oil before vacation...

Pulled the pulley and coil off my old compressor. Then I worked at removing the fan pulley. It is bolted to the damper with 3 10mm bolts. I was like...those are going to be stuck on there. Got out my Ryobi impact and they all buzzed right off. Well that's surprising. Don't worry, the pulley was rusted to the damper. It seemed to be stuck on the hub of the damper rather than the face of it. I tried my longest Harbor Freight prybar. No love. Tried PB blast and then set that on fire with my torch. No love. Did that a bunch more times. Noticed it was actually bending the aluminum fan bracket I was prying against...

So I upgraded to an even longer crow bar. And that worked. Popped off. I threaded the bolts back in before doing this so it wouldn't go flying into my radiator. Now that's thinking.

Starting to look more like an electric fan LT1. Just need to lose that fan bracket after I get normal length water pump bolts.
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Need to confirm how to remove the compressor. There seem to be three mounting bolts (or studs) on the face of it. Ed says there is a hard to reach bracket at the rear. I will investigate some other time.
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Crap at the bottom of the radiator support between the condenser and radiator. Need to blast this stuff out. I should do something with that support as it is pretty rusty...
20190812_165735.jpg
kevm14
Posts: 15200
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: 96 Roadmaster no A/C

Post by kevm14 »

Well that was terrible. Decided to tackle this at like 3pm on Sunday. I must have envisioned it taking like 2 hours. That was very optimistic. I finished up at like almost 9pm. No pictures but this was like at least twice as bad as my clutch experience.

I even had a head start because of how the car was pretty much ready for this, including the coolant pipe bracket disconnected from the compressor stud bolts. And there was no clutch on the compressor which makes it lighter and shorter.

The bolts to remove go like this:
- 3 total in the front on the housing. 2 are stud bolts and the lower one is a regular bolt. They were like 14mm, the lower bolt being 13mm. Access is trickier than it should be but that's because the coolant pipe is in the way. The mechanical fan (remnants now) just makes everything more difficult. I should get a stock hose.
- Remove the nut holding the refrigerant lines to the back of the compressor. It was 15mm. Access was tricky. I ended up shoving an extension and U-joint through the top of the cradle next to the starter, forward to the nut, and also kept imagining accidentally touching the starter wire and welding something. You can barely get your hand in there and then really only fingers.
- Now we get to have fun with the support bracket at the rear of the compressor. Oh yes. 2 small 10mm bolts attach the bracket to the compressor. It has an ear with an elongated hole and a 14mm nut attached to a stud on the block. First I removed one of the 10mm bolts before realizing that there were two. I ended up being able to jam a deep socket and U-joint between the engine cradle (just barely) and loosen the nut. Couldn't even get it all the way off with the ratchet because it backed the socket into the cradle. That's how tight things were. So I did the rest by hand (fingers).
- Pretty much now you wrestle the compressor out around the stupid coolant pipe which is terminally in the way. It was tricky to twist the compressor enough to get the rear bracket to come off the stud. There is almost no clearance between the frame, engine cradle, coolant pipe and some, I think, power steering lines which wrap TIGHTLY around the outside of the compressor. Seriously.

In summary I am very irritated that GM decided to shove the compressor where they did on the LT1s but I can only presume this is due to F/Y-body packaging decisions. Really sucks because this job was very much NOT like working on B-bodies. It was more like working on my STS.

Of course that's just disassembly.

The new compressor, despite being as OEM as I could buy, appears to be somewhat universal for more than one GM application (or maybe just F and Y additionally). Obviously I had to swap over the plastic shield at the rear which was one 10mm bolt. I did try to drain the old compressor. Like one drop of oil came out. So 1oz went in the new compressor. And I had to swap the bracket over. But unbelievably, I had to swap the stud over where the nut attaches to hold the refrigerant lines to the rear of the compressor. And I didn't have an additional 10mmx1.5 nut to use as a jam nut to get the stud off!! So I actually had to go out to buy a nut (thanks TSC for being open when Ace was not).

Eventually I swapped everything over, did my oil, lubricated the new gaskets with mineral oil, installed them on the lines and then began trying to reinstall the new compressor. Oh god.

At the beginning it's just fighting with the coolant pipe. But once you get the compressor nestled between all the nonsense (remember, frame, P/S line, serpentine tensioner and just whatever you can think of is in the way or nearly so), the next challenge becomes the rear bracket on the compressor. It just would not go on. The compressor was hitting the frame or engine cradle and could not make it the 1/4" further back it needed to be to get the bracket on the stud. Unbelievable. Ended up doing a bunch of things in vain. Ended up removing again, pulling the plastic shield I swapped over and that turned out to help. The compressor slid in and went on the stud. Somehow I was able to reattach that plastic shield with only finger access. Just to paint the picture, to tighten the bolt for the plastic shield, I stuck a ratcheting wrench up there and got like 2 clicks at a time, letting gravity pull the wrench down each time. Just so ridiculously tight.

I am hoping that no kitty litter (which I was laying in) went on my compressor gaskets. We'll see when I vacuum it. But everything is installed and tight.

It should go without saying that I did not have time for the fan job so I road tested it with just a secondary fan. I have to say it feels even faster, especially in 1st gear. The next step will be to do the fans and wiring which will be another several hours long project but SHOULD be easier. Oh and again do the A/C....needs a deep vacuum and then refrigerant so I will need to run to Ed's house...
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