http://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/31/the-othe ... e-001.html
Semantics? No, two orders of magnitude.
http://www.businessinsider.com/one-perc ... map-2014-9
Being in the top 1% isn't really as exclusive as you'd think. These are dual income working professionals, small business owners and so on. The people you really mean are actually in the top 0.01%. But that would have less political bite to it, wouldn't it?
When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
There was another interesting discussion that I just tried for the last 20 minutes to find. That's one thing I hate about Quora. I should have saved the link or something. Anyway, it broke down how a family with a 1% income level has a ridiculous amount of bills, like child care and all that stuff. Did they take nice vacations? Yes, but it's not like they were able to save $200k a year or something.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
You can live paycheck to paycheck at any income level if you try hard enough.kevm14 wrote:There was another interesting discussion that I just tried for the last 20 minutes to find. That's one thing I hate about Quora. I should have saved the link or something. Anyway, it broke down how a family with a 1% income level has a ridiculous amount of bills, like child care and all that stuff. Did they take nice vacations? Yes, but it's not like they were able to save $200k a year or something.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
I would say we, being well below the 1% have crazy bills like child care and student loans etc. also.
I am not mad at the people who have figured out how to make a lot of money, I am more frustrated with the idea that I did everything I was "supposed" to do, and can barely afford a 6 year old Camaro due to everything else that I have to pay for. The student loans that we have/had are low compared to what people are graduating with today. I feel for them. You don't have to, and it is ok to be satisfied.
I don't think the frustration with the 1% is because they make a lot of money, that is fine, it is the perception that the "1%" or the .01% are making things impossible for people to "move up" or even "make it" out of greed. You can argue whether that is real or perception (I am not sure it matters), but the reality is that if enough people decide that no matter how hard they work they will never get anywhere, well, that pretty much sums up the fall of every civilization in history. There has to be a balance, and there has to be a way for people to succeed if they want to. Requiring a college degree for a job that should never need one, and charging 100K for that degree is a big part of the problem. There was a class system in history where you could pay a large sum of money to move up one class level in a generation. Anyone remember how that worked out?
I am not mad at the people who have figured out how to make a lot of money, I am more frustrated with the idea that I did everything I was "supposed" to do, and can barely afford a 6 year old Camaro due to everything else that I have to pay for. The student loans that we have/had are low compared to what people are graduating with today. I feel for them. You don't have to, and it is ok to be satisfied.
I don't think the frustration with the 1% is because they make a lot of money, that is fine, it is the perception that the "1%" or the .01% are making things impossible for people to "move up" or even "make it" out of greed. You can argue whether that is real or perception (I am not sure it matters), but the reality is that if enough people decide that no matter how hard they work they will never get anywhere, well, that pretty much sums up the fall of every civilization in history. There has to be a balance, and there has to be a way for people to succeed if they want to. Requiring a college degree for a job that should never need one, and charging 100K for that degree is a big part of the problem. There was a class system in history where you could pay a large sum of money to move up one class level in a generation. Anyone remember how that worked out?
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
I would ask what other field you think you could have studied in school (or even a change in course now), and adding up all the loans, access to jobs, etc., do you think you would make more or less money as now? Do you think you'd have more or less risk as now? Do you think you'd be happier or less happy as now? If any of the answers deviate significantly from neutral, you should probably change something. For me, I am good where I am and I will work at optimizing my happiness within the career I have now.
This country may always have a lot of room for improvement, but you can still take a good idea, add risk, add capital, and add hard work, and achieve great things. It is still possible. People are doing it right now. Other people are trying and failing (and then trying again). And I'd argue this is one of the most fertile places on earth where you can do that. Again, there may be expectation issues, or other things but it's a truth I think.
And maybe to the point of the thread, the bottom of the top 1% are working professionals (probably dual earner). They may also be more commonly located in a part of the country with high pay and high cost of living. Maybe they are a doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur. They could even be a tech journalist/blogger. They are probably not doing line engineering work, and I don't think anyone promised that line engineering work would get you into the top 1%. But, some of those folks were engineering trained and moved up the ladder to do other things (maybe they went out and added an MBA). It's not like we're 180° out from what we should be doing.
You could spend the rest of your life whining about what you could have or should have. If you do, that is on you.
This country may always have a lot of room for improvement, but you can still take a good idea, add risk, add capital, and add hard work, and achieve great things. It is still possible. People are doing it right now. Other people are trying and failing (and then trying again). And I'd argue this is one of the most fertile places on earth where you can do that. Again, there may be expectation issues, or other things but it's a truth I think.
And maybe to the point of the thread, the bottom of the top 1% are working professionals (probably dual earner). They may also be more commonly located in a part of the country with high pay and high cost of living. Maybe they are a doctor, lawyer, entrepreneur. They could even be a tech journalist/blogger. They are probably not doing line engineering work, and I don't think anyone promised that line engineering work would get you into the top 1%. But, some of those folks were engineering trained and moved up the ladder to do other things (maybe they went out and added an MBA). It's not like we're 180° out from what we should be doing.
You could spend the rest of your life whining about what you could have or should have. If you do, that is on you.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
I am not necessarily complaining about my position, just saying that I expected to be much more comfortable than I am, and sympathize with people that bust their ass every day for less. I was more voicing my understanding of why people would be frustrated.
I also never said anything about expecting that engineering would get me in the top 1%. I didn't realize that you needed to be a top 1%er to feel like you were doing good.
I also never said anything about expecting that engineering would get me in the top 1%. I didn't realize that you needed to be a top 1%er to feel like you were doing good.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
Try this:billgiacheri wrote:I am more frustrated with the idea that I did everything I was "supposed" to do, and can barely afford a 6 year old Camaro due to everything else that I have to pay for.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/ ... blog-post/
Some of it may be impractical or silly (like not driving a 4500 lb V8 car every day), but there are some solid pieces of advice in his the articles he links to on specific subjects.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
The comments are almost as useful as the article itself.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
One flaw in the MMM viewpoint is that there isn't really room for hobbies that cost money, if you take all of his advice. I reject that. I like cars. Now, the answer is actually not that hard: find ways to decrease the cost of your car hobby. Do your own work, buy smartly, and challenge your preferences. In Bill's case, I would challenge whether true happiness only comes after dropping $20k on a Gen 5 Camaro.
Re: When we say Top 1%, we mean Top 0.01%
I agree this guy has some good information, I but the idea that you should be happy with nothing is stupid. Why work? You can have nothing without making money (Isn't there a good office space joke here? LOL) I have been working hard since I turned 16 and I still can't afford a Camaro. It isn't that I expect a Gen 5 20K Camaro will change my whole life and give me never-ending happiness.
There is good advice on here. Don't have debt, pay stuff off. Don't spend outside your means, invest. All good. But to squirrel away money all the good years and worry about calories per dollar on meals, and then not even want to spend it is crazy. I also reject the "I have money and am happy not spending it." Good for you. I just want to be comfortable and be able to do projects and experiment with different things, primarily cars and computers/programming, hopefully together. Unfortunately it takes money for both of those. I am an engineer, not a hipster that wants to be happy with nothing.
Note: I never said I should have or deserve 5 BMWs and a Mercedes, and a million dollar house and extreme luxury. Honestly, I don't want any of that. Just some fun money. It is sad if that is ridiculous.
There is good advice on here. Don't have debt, pay stuff off. Don't spend outside your means, invest. All good. But to squirrel away money all the good years and worry about calories per dollar on meals, and then not even want to spend it is crazy. I also reject the "I have money and am happy not spending it." Good for you. I just want to be comfortable and be able to do projects and experiment with different things, primarily cars and computers/programming, hopefully together. Unfortunately it takes money for both of those. I am an engineer, not a hipster that wants to be happy with nothing.
Note: I never said I should have or deserve 5 BMWs and a Mercedes, and a million dollar house and extreme luxury. Honestly, I don't want any of that. Just some fun money. It is sad if that is ridiculous.