Protesters block MS shuttles in Seattle

[bill25]

Here is my idealist point of view on this matter:

My wife had student loans some at 14 percent. These were signed for when she was 17, and didn't qualify for financial aid even though only her father worked, and was in no position to pay for her tuition. Sure he cosigned the loans so it wasn't technically taking advantage of a 17 year old, but they couldn't afford it otherwise.

Why is a student loan, backed by the gov, and must be paid even if you die allowed to be 14% when my mortgage is 3.75 and I could tell the bank to go fuck themselves and trash the house making it useless except the land. There is more risk in mortgages than student loans.

I believe people do things based on incentives. I think that making school as expensive as it is the wrong incentive if you really want people to pay taxes.


Everyone that is bitching that nobody pays taxes might want to re-evaluate the incentives in this country. If opportunity is perceived to not exist, then opportunity doesn't exist. So for all the people graduating not knowing how to read because of no child left behind, what are they supposed to do? There are so many things wrong with the education system in this country before you even get to college.

My wife also must have a "useless degree" because she graduated one of the best education schools in the country - RIC , with honors for elementary ed and can't get a job besides being a 2 year old babysitter.

I think it is a lot easier to just say that people are lazy, retarded, went for useless degrees, etc than to admit that there is a problem and actually try to fix it. (I do admit that some people are lazy and have useless degrees but there is still a real problem)

End Rant and back to incentives:

If you really want people to pay taxes and their fair share, education is in the best interest to the entire country, meaning there should be incentives to go to college.

If school was reasonably priced at say 10K per year for 4 to 5 years that is 50K.

If you get a job getting paid 50K per year you will pay 5K per year at 10%, 2.5 K at 5% tax rate. That means that if school were free if you passed your classes, the taxes you will pay will pay for the schooling in 10 to 20 years. So if you work from 24 to 64 that means you pay taxes for 20+ years.

The alternative for our society is 100K school so people don't bother, resort to going on welfare - 30K per year cost instead of paying taxes, then resort to crime, then prison, 50 - 100K COST instead of tax payment.

So what is better for the country?

I don't think everyone should get everything for free but if someone is willing to put in the time and effort and pass the classes, then why not help them when you know it will help everyone in the long run?

[bill25]

Going to college at all costs was a meme of our entire lives, basically. But knowing what we know now, if you are going for a shit major, seriously, just don't bother and save a TON of money. There's also trade school. But college for the sake of college, at these prices, is just dumb.

I agree with all of this.

College at the current prices are going to recreate the class system. Only the rich will be able to afford college, and that will be how it is. The rich will go to college, the middle will go to trade school if they are lucky and if you aren't capable of a trade, you are poor. No matter how smart you are.

Think about where this country will be when only Paris Hilton can go to college. Pretty Fucked.

[kevm14]

The alternative for our society is 100K school so people don't bother, resort to going on welfare - 30K per year cost instead of paying taxes, then resort to crime, then prison, 50 - 100K COST instead of tax payment.

There is a HUGE middle ground that you did not mention. I think the problem is this perception that you must go to college or else you'll be on the street. With so many people having gone to college, with huge debt, and no good paying job to show for it, it is quite obvious to me that going to college isn't always the right answer for everyone. I'm willing to believe that much of the high cost of tuition is due to this "I must go to college" combined with the gov't guaranteed to loan you all kinds of money (meaning the school has guaranteed tuition). Bam, high tuition.

One step would be collegiate ROI, something that could be taught in HS. Now I realize ROI can't be the only metric. What if you enter a career you're not happy with? Well here's the kicker: at least if you get a good ROI, you have an OPTION. And that's more than many people riddled with student loan debt can say for themselves.

[Adam]

Everyone forgets about state schools.

URI is ~$12k per year for in state students. Room and board are extra, but overall much cheaper than private schools. No reason to pay $250k for a degree if you can't afford it (or don't want the debt).

[kevm14]

Yes, everyone forgets, including myself. That's another dumb thing - insisting on a $40k/yr private college AND a degree which doesn't translate to good pay.

Or people can do what Jamie did. Attend a community college for 3 years (4 courses at a time, 3 years, including summers, and between scholarships and grants she only had to pay for the summers and books) then transfer those credits to another school where she spent only 2 years to earn a BS. She graduated with a modest amount of debt which we paid off in 2010 before I bought my CTS-V. It WAS a "useless major" being Human Services BUT she got a BS out of it, and like I said, the debt is gone. So all in all, she could have done a lot worse.

[Adam]

There were several people in my graduating class that did something like that. They would take 2 years of classes at CCRI then transfer into the URI engineering program. Still took 4 years for a BS and overall cost was about 25% less that a straight URI degree.

[bill25]

I also went the CCRI track and don't regret it at all. It was a great way to do college. Inflation is pretty big at URI also though. When I started URI - instate, it was in 2006: Spring $3650 Fall:
4,274.00 a semester full time. Not living there.
Spring 07: 5,172.00, Fall 07: 5,460.00 These costs are direct from my eCampus Account that still has that history.
So 07 it was 10.5K

Today a year it is
12,506.00 without health insurance fee because you can be on your parents plan.


You are looking at 50K in state for a degree at URI. Minimum, as you can see it goes up every semester.
The other cost is that it is very hard to make no money and go to school full time without a support system. I worked the whole time I was in College, but the large part of those 7 years, I lived with my parents for free. Not everybody has that opportunity.

I am not saying that 50K should prevent you from a lifetime career. I am just saying that it is harder if your parents suck. (Mine didn't luckily.)

[Fast_Ed]

I have heard that colleges are acting like a business: they increase the price until people stop buying the product.

Do the students understand their prospects after college? Does anyone do the math... "Hmmmm, my student loan payments are going to eat up 50% of my income for 20 years if I become a teacher... " 17 year olds have little to no experience with debt, and no idea what the impact will be to their finances in the future. So they just sign up and go for it, and have no idea what these huge tuition numbers really mean.

This is one situation where the free market will have a tough time correcting the price of school. I'm not saying it should be regulated, but perhaps someone should be telling these kids what they're getting into. With real numbers backing it up.

And after the financial damage has been done, there should be better information on payback as well. My mortgage company has great payoff calculators and information on how important it is to overpay. The student loan companies, not so much. Everything on the SL website is geared toward extending repayment periods. Or, even worse, going to a "graduated repayment option.." There is nothing on shortening the loan period and no amortization calculator. Anyone with a real interest in getting out of debt has to figure it out themselves.