The W222 thread
Re: The W222 thread
WDDUG8DB9KA449123
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Re: The W222 thread
Need a VIN check on this car WDDUG8DB4KA459171
Hoping for 487
Hoping for 487
Re: The W222 thread
I have made some interesting discoveries recently.
First, I test drove a facelift W221 S65 (a 2011 with 27k). It was awesome. Bad news: low mile cars are priced to insanity (they wanted $60k). Good news: even mileage as low as 90-100k is falling into the affordable zone. The same car in that mileage range is going to be more like high 20s to low 30s. Bottom market W221 S65s are in the high teens now.
However, I made an interesting discovery about the W222 S65: None of them used the MCT version of the 722.9. They all have a torque converter. I really liked the drivability of the 2011 with the 722.6 and was worried the MCT situation would completely ruin the experience (I still think it would). Turns out either Mercedes already figured this out, or the MCT couldn't handle the torque. Either way, we get a torque converter through 2020. Not sure what the Maybach cars use with the 9G (with 4Matic) and I don't care much, either.
Further research has revealed that 90-100k W222 S65s get into the mid-$30k range which is touching facelift W221 range. I do really like the W221 and while the 5G could still offer a touch more rawness, I think the W222 has overwhelming superiority, such as:
- More modern interior
- Burmester 3D/811 code audio is LEAGUES better and one of the better audio systems available in a car at any price. And it is standard on all W222 S65s. The H/K Logic7 in my S550 is fine and I'd like to believe the B&O 811 on the 11-13 S65 was better, but there is still no comparison.
- Certain features like seat massage/bladder stuff I think is much improved in the W222
- No annual engine mount replacement (a long time owner of both a W221 and now W222 S65 owner has confirmed this and I trust his opinion)
- Maybe other suspension longevity things like control arms.
- ABC was awesome in the W221, and MBC in the W222 is even better. Higher performing and probably better overall reliability. The facelift (2018+) MBC is even better but those cars are pricey.
- Given that the 722.9 has a torque converter, I think the other benefits of the 7G now apply to even the V12 - more ratios is better, better fuel economy and quite possibly the car gains a few mph of trap, as well. Like maybe 118 up to 122? Ish?
- M279 completely redesigned the ignition system disaster on the M275 which dates back to like 2000 on the M137. Those were basically a Saab DI cassette situation (with ionic current sensing for knock detection and everything) and with all the same reputation but on a V12. M279 now has individual coils, stepping into the modern age (but still 3 valves per cylinder and 24 plugs).
- I believe the M279 has a better intercooler system.
- Overall the W222 is probably easier to maintain, despite certain added complexity from the W221.
Not many cons, but I'll try:
- Even with a torque converter, they may have filtered away a bit of the rawness that reminded me of my E55 on the W221 S65, but unlike with the MCT, this is probably not a deal breaker
- Have seen sunshade or sunroof issues maybe more frequently? Completely anecdotal though.
- MAYBE a touch better interior build quality on the W221
I assess any possible advantage of the W221 does not outweigh the advantages of the W222.
All that said, the W221 could be relevant in a certain price range. But for high 20s or more, that is just too close to what you can be in a W222 for. But for low 20s or lower, the W221 could be worth a look. Not going to get a facelift one for that (yet) and also looking at probably the worst ownership experience from a maintenance/repair standpoint. Word is the older M275s all guzzled oil though it didn't seem to cause any issues. More likely to have ABC issues probably. And maybe just old car stuff, and these are very complicated older cars.
Realistically I may still be a few years away from this but I should follow the market. And prices should continue to fall anyway - or higher mileage examples will increase in prevalence.
First, I test drove a facelift W221 S65 (a 2011 with 27k). It was awesome. Bad news: low mile cars are priced to insanity (they wanted $60k). Good news: even mileage as low as 90-100k is falling into the affordable zone. The same car in that mileage range is going to be more like high 20s to low 30s. Bottom market W221 S65s are in the high teens now.
However, I made an interesting discovery about the W222 S65: None of them used the MCT version of the 722.9. They all have a torque converter. I really liked the drivability of the 2011 with the 722.6 and was worried the MCT situation would completely ruin the experience (I still think it would). Turns out either Mercedes already figured this out, or the MCT couldn't handle the torque. Either way, we get a torque converter through 2020. Not sure what the Maybach cars use with the 9G (with 4Matic) and I don't care much, either.
Further research has revealed that 90-100k W222 S65s get into the mid-$30k range which is touching facelift W221 range. I do really like the W221 and while the 5G could still offer a touch more rawness, I think the W222 has overwhelming superiority, such as:
- More modern interior
- Burmester 3D/811 code audio is LEAGUES better and one of the better audio systems available in a car at any price. And it is standard on all W222 S65s. The H/K Logic7 in my S550 is fine and I'd like to believe the B&O 811 on the 11-13 S65 was better, but there is still no comparison.
- Certain features like seat massage/bladder stuff I think is much improved in the W222
- No annual engine mount replacement (a long time owner of both a W221 and now W222 S65 owner has confirmed this and I trust his opinion)
- Maybe other suspension longevity things like control arms.
- ABC was awesome in the W221, and MBC in the W222 is even better. Higher performing and probably better overall reliability. The facelift (2018+) MBC is even better but those cars are pricey.
- Given that the 722.9 has a torque converter, I think the other benefits of the 7G now apply to even the V12 - more ratios is better, better fuel economy and quite possibly the car gains a few mph of trap, as well. Like maybe 118 up to 122? Ish?
- M279 completely redesigned the ignition system disaster on the M275 which dates back to like 2000 on the M137. Those were basically a Saab DI cassette situation (with ionic current sensing for knock detection and everything) and with all the same reputation but on a V12. M279 now has individual coils, stepping into the modern age (but still 3 valves per cylinder and 24 plugs).
- I believe the M279 has a better intercooler system.
- Overall the W222 is probably easier to maintain, despite certain added complexity from the W221.
Not many cons, but I'll try:
- Even with a torque converter, they may have filtered away a bit of the rawness that reminded me of my E55 on the W221 S65, but unlike with the MCT, this is probably not a deal breaker
- Have seen sunshade or sunroof issues maybe more frequently? Completely anecdotal though.
- MAYBE a touch better interior build quality on the W221
I assess any possible advantage of the W221 does not outweigh the advantages of the W222.
All that said, the W221 could be relevant in a certain price range. But for high 20s or more, that is just too close to what you can be in a W222 for. But for low 20s or lower, the W221 could be worth a look. Not going to get a facelift one for that (yet) and also looking at probably the worst ownership experience from a maintenance/repair standpoint. Word is the older M275s all guzzled oil though it didn't seem to cause any issues. More likely to have ABC issues probably. And maybe just old car stuff, and these are very complicated older cars.
Realistically I may still be a few years away from this but I should follow the market. And prices should continue to fall anyway - or higher mileage examples will increase in prevalence.
Re: The W222 thread
I looked up the torque converter on the S65 just for fun and it had a 231 P/N. That usually means the R231 debuted this reinforced transmission and probably was first also paired with the M279. Turns out, yes.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... st-review/
Trapped 124, in 2013.
The comments knew it used a torque converter, 12 years ago. I guess I wasn't following any of this, then.
Anyway, the point is the M279 and V12 722.9 have been around since MY13 which is something considering the first application in an S class was MY15.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a1 ... st-review/
Trapped 124, in 2013.
The comments knew it used a torque converter, 12 years ago. I guess I wasn't following any of this, then.
Anyway, the point is the M279 and V12 722.9 have been around since MY13 which is something considering the first application in an S class was MY15.
Re: The W222 thread
Regarding the white car's upper steering shaft replacement: pretty much as described on the invoice. Shockingly little disassembly of the vehicle. Impressive.
There are several subroutine instructions but seems like it's done from inside the car. Hopefully I have the right part.
There are several subroutine instructions but seems like it's done from inside the car. Hopefully I have the right part.
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