Started around 10am yesterday. By 2pm the system was running. Hardest part was pulling the lines out of the wall while the orange expanding foam held everything in place. Second hardest thing is dealing with the line set connections while at the top of a ladder.
But as it goes with these jobs, a test run is not the end of the job. You have to finish the install itself meaning steps like:
- Reapply orange fire block foam to wall cavity
- Silicone caulk and replace the top cover for the line set where it comes out of the wall
- Apply the UV tape stuff to the line set, at least to the areas that may end up exposed. I covered a lot more area just for good measure.
- Attach the condensate line and cut to length
- Double insulate the various sections of line set (my preference)
- Apply the tar/asphalt sound deadening to upper line set connections
- Finish/tidy up the upper line set connections (more insulation/tape)
- Snap on and screw down the line set covers
- Coil the excess power/signal cable. This gen 4 one is upgraded and armored which is nice.
- Throw away a ton of garbage littered around the work area. Pick up tools. Gather up unused installation items and organize.
I was done with all of the above by 5pm. I would say doing a replacement system was probably half the work/time of a brand new system that's never been installed before. Specifically, cutting out the time for:
- Hanging the inside unit mounting bracket (same for my old gen 3 and new gen 4)
- Locating and drilling hole, installing PVC conduit passthrough
- Locating/attaching line set covers to outside of house
- Locating/hanging condenser bracketry
Seriously, that stuff doubles the time.
Anyway, new system is working great. The gas sniffer had some alarms where the ends of the line set attach to the inside unit and the condenser but I couldn't really figure out if they were false or not. It did pass the soapy water bubble test.
Side note: I JUST threw away the first replacement condenser and when I went to "evacuate" the gas, there was none. That was not the case with my old gen 3 condenser. Not sure what to think about that.
Install ductless mini-split
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Might be time to ditch the last condenser (witting in front of my garage) as I haven't needed anything from it. This new single zone has been working for 16 months with no issues.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
I may make the push to install my final dual zone system addressing master bed and living room HVAC needs. I see Mr Cool now has a 5th gen system with R454B. But IWAE still seems to carry the 4th gen R410a 18k system with 9k + 12k heads. This is about the same price as it was in 2023, so that's something. The 5th gen also now offers a 6k head but I think 9k is more appropriate for my master bedroom. I also didn't see an option like they offer on the 4th gen. I only saw a 27k condenser option which runs the price up substantially to like $4k. The 4th gen system with 18k outside unit was more like $2800 which is a significant savings. Given all my hand wringing over sizing (previously documented) this would seem to solve my decision paralysis.
Researching line set cover options that include vertical elbows to handle my Garrison-style bump out situation for the lines that would run down from my master bedroom.
Here are some options from Rectorseal:
https://rectorseal.com/cg-4-5-internal-90-ell-white/
https://rectorseal.com/cg-4-5-external-90-ell-white/
https://rectorseal.bynder.com/m/3e3b9c4 ... -Flyer.pdf
I may be able to fashion something for these to hide the vertical turns. Only problem is these are seemingly impossible to order online without a contractor account at a distributor. So maybe I'll try FW Webb and see what they can do for me.
Researching line set cover options that include vertical elbows to handle my Garrison-style bump out situation for the lines that would run down from my master bedroom.
Here are some options from Rectorseal:
https://rectorseal.com/cg-4-5-internal-90-ell-white/
https://rectorseal.com/cg-4-5-external-90-ell-white/
https://rectorseal.bynder.com/m/3e3b9c4 ... -Flyer.pdf
I may be able to fashion something for these to hide the vertical turns. Only problem is these are seemingly impossible to order online without a contractor account at a distributor. So maybe I'll try FW Webb and see what they can do for me.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
FW Webb not only carries Rectorseal Cover Guard but they had the inside and outside vertical elbows in stock, for less than what I am seeing on eBay.
But upon further reflection it would make more sense just to do all Rectorseal Cover Guard so I can use their wider range of parts.
Procurement list:
IWAE
https://iwae.com/shop/18k-btu-21-seer-m ... 22046.html
They seem to have a 10% coupon as well. $2898 listed on the website for the default kit options. 21 SEER2.
18k outside unit
9k + 12k inside unit
Need one 16' and one 25' line set. They should be able to substitute. 16' out of stock....and isn't going to be in stock. Damn.
Disconnect box
6' whip
5th gen with R454B is not in stock in this size but the equivalent would be $3267. 23.9 SEER2. However, this 18k is out of stock and she thought "maybe by June." Double damn. Fun fact: the new gen 5 units are available with a smaller 6k head and the 18k is now a 3 zone. That is a great move for houses with smaller bedrooms.
[ ] That moves us onto a 5th gen 27k outside + 9k inside + 18k inside. 23 SEER2. Price with 25' + 16' $4072 + whip and box = $4200. 10% discount brings that down to $3785 and then back up to $4048 with tax. 25A breaker and 10/2 is sufficient (oddly the same as the 18k). Just need to confirm that I can put the hole in the wall in a different location to clear my porch light. If I can put the hole all the way to the left of the lower bracket ear and A) the lines will still reach far enough out of the hole and B) the resulting bend is ok then I may be ok. But having second thoughts about cramming an 18k into this area of my living room. Putting it to the left of my window would probably wedge it too far into the corner.
FWIW I did bring up the downstairs situation (approx 856 sq ft but the rear half is vaulted + southern facing). She nudged me toward the 18k for downstairs. Fortunately the wire and breaker requirements are no different. The 27k is a bit larger but that doesn't matter too much, other than it is my most visible unit which is somewhat of a bummer.
Right now I'm waiting for a tech to weigh in (Monday) on how far I can move the wall hole to the left (because of my porch light interference). Some rough measuring suggests the hole will partially overlap the bracket and I'll have to stuff the lines through a partially blocked hole (which is probably OK). I do want the downstairs lines fairly close to the light because the upstairs will run to the right of those (and then I guess the downstairs lines will tee into the upstairs lines, or something.
Regarding my concerns about the 27k being "too big" for a 9k bedroom head, I had some positive results from Copilot on this. FW Webb
[ ] Rectorseal Cover Guard. I will have to build a spec but I will use this because they have more options like the vertical elbows (which I already bought anyway) and tees. I can run the upstairs line set down and then tee into the living room one, and just have one cover/tube down and over to the outside unit. Should be a bit cleaner. More work to spec out what I need buy FW Webb seems to carry the whole line.
Catalog I can use to get parts. Probably a couple kits and then piece parts for the rest though it depends on prices. I think the kit only does 12 feet so I need probably 3. I am assuming the kit is a bit discounted from buying piece parts. https://rectorseal.bynder.com/m/3e3b9c4 ... -Flyer.pdf
Amazon
[ ] Last time I got my 10/2 from Amazon so I could do that again. Won't need much though. Maybe 10 feet but I'll get 25 since that's probably the minimum length. EDIT: Wow, Home Depot is way more expensive for Romex. Weird.
[ ] Diversitech stand. I got the 18" stand for the side but perhaps I will downsize to the 12" stand for the front. Uncertain if I want to do a pad or just try to make a little foundation for each foot with some pavers.
Home Depot
[ ] 25A breaker
[ ] Pipe nipple for wire protrusion through wall
But upon further reflection it would make more sense just to do all Rectorseal Cover Guard so I can use their wider range of parts.
Procurement list:
IWAE
https://iwae.com/shop/18k-btu-21-seer-m ... 22046.html
They seem to have a 10% coupon as well. $2898 listed on the website for the default kit options. 21 SEER2.
18k outside unit
9k + 12k inside unit
Need one 16' and one 25' line set. They should be able to substitute. 16' out of stock....and isn't going to be in stock. Damn.
Disconnect box
6' whip
5th gen with R454B is not in stock in this size but the equivalent would be $3267. 23.9 SEER2. However, this 18k is out of stock and she thought "maybe by June." Double damn. Fun fact: the new gen 5 units are available with a smaller 6k head and the 18k is now a 3 zone. That is a great move for houses with smaller bedrooms.
[ ] That moves us onto a 5th gen 27k outside + 9k inside + 18k inside. 23 SEER2. Price with 25' + 16' $4072 + whip and box = $4200. 10% discount brings that down to $3785 and then back up to $4048 with tax. 25A breaker and 10/2 is sufficient (oddly the same as the 18k). Just need to confirm that I can put the hole in the wall in a different location to clear my porch light. If I can put the hole all the way to the left of the lower bracket ear and A) the lines will still reach far enough out of the hole and B) the resulting bend is ok then I may be ok. But having second thoughts about cramming an 18k into this area of my living room. Putting it to the left of my window would probably wedge it too far into the corner.
FWIW I did bring up the downstairs situation (approx 856 sq ft but the rear half is vaulted + southern facing). She nudged me toward the 18k for downstairs. Fortunately the wire and breaker requirements are no different. The 27k is a bit larger but that doesn't matter too much, other than it is my most visible unit which is somewhat of a bummer.
Right now I'm waiting for a tech to weigh in (Monday) on how far I can move the wall hole to the left (because of my porch light interference). Some rough measuring suggests the hole will partially overlap the bracket and I'll have to stuff the lines through a partially blocked hole (which is probably OK). I do want the downstairs lines fairly close to the light because the upstairs will run to the right of those (and then I guess the downstairs lines will tee into the upstairs lines, or something.
Regarding my concerns about the 27k being "too big" for a 9k bedroom head, I had some positive results from Copilot on this. FW Webb
[ ] Rectorseal Cover Guard. I will have to build a spec but I will use this because they have more options like the vertical elbows (which I already bought anyway) and tees. I can run the upstairs line set down and then tee into the living room one, and just have one cover/tube down and over to the outside unit. Should be a bit cleaner. More work to spec out what I need buy FW Webb seems to carry the whole line.
Catalog I can use to get parts. Probably a couple kits and then piece parts for the rest though it depends on prices. I think the kit only does 12 feet so I need probably 3. I am assuming the kit is a bit discounted from buying piece parts. https://rectorseal.bynder.com/m/3e3b9c4 ... -Flyer.pdf
Amazon
[ ] Last time I got my 10/2 from Amazon so I could do that again. Won't need much though. Maybe 10 feet but I'll get 25 since that's probably the minimum length. EDIT: Wow, Home Depot is way more expensive for Romex. Weird.
[ ] Diversitech stand. I got the 18" stand for the side but perhaps I will downsize to the 12" stand for the front. Uncertain if I want to do a pad or just try to make a little foundation for each foot with some pavers.
Home Depot
[ ] 25A breaker
[ ] Pipe nipple for wire protrusion through wall
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Re: Install ductless mini-split
Ian's fan was intermittently squeaking. Copilot gave me some great direction and I decided the issue was actually the fan support bearing, not the motor. So I bought the recommended lube (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MG3T1Q?re ... asin_title) and took the cover off to get to the fan support bearing.
It turns out the bearing actually has a felt cap and that is what you oil. The oil then wicks to the bearing. Interesting.
The noise was a bit intermittent so time will tell but hopefully that was all it needed.
It turns out the bearing actually has a felt cap and that is what you oil. The oil then wicks to the bearing. Interesting.
The noise was a bit intermittent so time will tell but hopefully that was all it needed.
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Re: Install ductless mini-split
IWAE technician response was that they don't recommend moving the wall hole for lines away from what the template recommends. Mainly I guess they were citing the potential for line kinks. I seem to recall that the base of the lines that come out of the air handler are corrugated or something because bending them from folded flat to straight out is part of the install procedure and to use a different wall hole location I would have to make the bend in a location that may not be corrugated like that.
What this means is I cannot mount the 18k on my living room wall in the location that I wanted to. I could potentially put it on the left side of the window but by the time the line clears the shutter it will be very close to the wall which probably isn't ideal for airflow and it would also blow down on the sofa. Not ideal.
This seems to put me back to the original 12k plan. They still only have the 27k condenser in stock. So if I want a system right now it would have to be a 27k plus 9k + 12k head. This is a sanctioned combo but I still think I'd rather have the more efficient 18k condenser which is out of stock.
I'd probably be "fine" either way. The 18k would save, I dunno, $500 on the install? I need to double check that.
Latest quote I received indicates the 18k condenser would save a whopping $161. I don't know why the prices would be so close. IWAE responded that this does not include their current 10% off since it is out of stock. Even still that is not much of a price difference. They may not have 10% off if I wait for it to be back in stock though so $161 could be the real difference. Maybe I should just go for the 27k and enjoy the full 21k of inside unit capacity....or maybe I should do a 12k in the master bed just to tap into more condenser capacity. I think they are the same aside from fan profile.
Also the 10% off lasts to 4/30.
What this means is I cannot mount the 18k on my living room wall in the location that I wanted to. I could potentially put it on the left side of the window but by the time the line clears the shutter it will be very close to the wall which probably isn't ideal for airflow and it would also blow down on the sofa. Not ideal.
This seems to put me back to the original 12k plan. They still only have the 27k condenser in stock. So if I want a system right now it would have to be a 27k plus 9k + 12k head. This is a sanctioned combo but I still think I'd rather have the more efficient 18k condenser which is out of stock.
I'd probably be "fine" either way. The 18k would save, I dunno, $500 on the install? I need to double check that.
Latest quote I received indicates the 18k condenser would save a whopping $161. I don't know why the prices would be so close. IWAE responded that this does not include their current 10% off since it is out of stock. Even still that is not much of a price difference. They may not have 10% off if I wait for it to be back in stock though so $161 could be the real difference. Maybe I should just go for the 27k and enjoy the full 21k of inside unit capacity....or maybe I should do a 12k in the master bed just to tap into more condenser capacity. I think they are the same aside from fan profile.
Also the 10% off lasts to 4/30.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Found this:
Lists the 12k and 18k. But I also need 9k specs.
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Re: Install ductless mini-split
They emailed me a few more specs. Still need the 9k (they sent a single zone sheet).
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Re: Install ductless mini-split
Turns out the air handlers are the same across multi and single. I guess that makes sense. Here is what I have so far for fan speeds.
The formatting sucks but the fan speeds for the 9, 12 and 18 are shown.
The min fan speed ramps up as the BTU capacity ramps up, which I view as anticipating a bigger room size. They need to broadcast and mix the air to achieve room conditioning. Makes sense. What is bothering me is how the 12k can be a 12k with these fan speeds. Maybe the coil is different after all? The weights are identical though.
Anyway with the min fan speed of the 12 being what it is I think I'd rather do the 9k in the bedroom. It will dehumidify better. Though, this is only useful if the condenser can throttle down enough. So maybe I'd argue 12+12 is a better pairing if I do a 27k condenser and 9+12 is better with the 18k. That's where I'm at. And back to everything I said before about the 10% discount expiring at the end of the month and the 18k likely NOT being available by then. I have some thinking to do.
I'm going to post some capacity info. But based on a quick look, maybe I'll do 27k with 9+12. The capacity of the 9k doesn't seem to go below where the 27k can throttle. I'll post more later.
Code: Select all
133.33% 150.00%
Fan speed 9000 BTU CFM 12000 BTU CFM 18000 BTU CFM 12000 increase over 9000 18000 increase over 12000
low 129 156 324 120.93% 207.69%
med 215 212 382 98.60% 180.19%
high 318 294 471 92.45% 160.20%
turbo 368 354 671 96.20% 189.55%
The min fan speed ramps up as the BTU capacity ramps up, which I view as anticipating a bigger room size. They need to broadcast and mix the air to achieve room conditioning. Makes sense. What is bothering me is how the 12k can be a 12k with these fan speeds. Maybe the coil is different after all? The weights are identical though.
Anyway with the min fan speed of the 12 being what it is I think I'd rather do the 9k in the bedroom. It will dehumidify better. Though, this is only useful if the condenser can throttle down enough. So maybe I'd argue 12+12 is a better pairing if I do a 27k condenser and 9+12 is better with the 18k. That's where I'm at. And back to everything I said before about the 10% discount expiring at the end of the month and the 18k likely NOT being available by then. I have some thinking to do.
I'm going to post some capacity info. But based on a quick look, maybe I'll do 27k with 9+12. The capacity of the 9k doesn't seem to go below where the 27k can throttle. I'll post more later.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Mr Cool gave me two different PDFs. One says single zone but they claim the air handler is the same, at least for fan speeds. But I am getting slightly different BTU specs between the two docs. Probably close enough to draw the same conclusions. So here they are from the one doc that actually had the 9k in it.
27k condenser can throttle down to 7200-8000 depending on outside temp (95 or 82F). Also, it has by far the most dynamic range, throttling down to near the others but peaking at 24k! If I look at all the mins, it's fine. So I guess I'll do the 27k with the 18k in the living room (to the left of the window) and 9k upstairs. FWIW the doc shows the 12k and 9k are identical except for the fan profile (that thing I said before). Shrug.
Something like this
. I can clear the side wall by 9" and min spec is like 4.75". Also should clear the shutter. Perfect. I will likely have to coil an extra 4' of line which is unfortunate since this location mounts it closer to where I was going to put the condenser. But whatever. It is worth mentioning that I like the air handler location better on this side of the window. It would have been awkward to come in the house and by greeted to a giant white wall protrusion. This house has 7.5' ceilings where it is not vaulted.
I will probably install the upstairs first with 25' line set and see where that gets me and then I guess install the downstairs. Final condenser placement after that.
I may just do some concrete paver stones and like a 12" stand. Still kinda ugly but I don't really have a lot of options.
For condenser clocking I can do facing straight out or fan facing the driveway. We'll see.
27k condenser can throttle down to 7200-8000 depending on outside temp (95 or 82F). Also, it has by far the most dynamic range, throttling down to near the others but peaking at 24k! If I look at all the mins, it's fine. So I guess I'll do the 27k with the 18k in the living room (to the left of the window) and 9k upstairs. FWIW the doc shows the 12k and 9k are identical except for the fan profile (that thing I said before). Shrug.
Something like this
. I can clear the side wall by 9" and min spec is like 4.75". Also should clear the shutter. Perfect. I will likely have to coil an extra 4' of line which is unfortunate since this location mounts it closer to where I was going to put the condenser. But whatever. It is worth mentioning that I like the air handler location better on this side of the window. It would have been awkward to come in the house and by greeted to a giant white wall protrusion. This house has 7.5' ceilings where it is not vaulted.
I will probably install the upstairs first with 25' line set and see where that gets me and then I guess install the downstairs. Final condenser placement after that.
I may just do some concrete paver stones and like a 12" stand. Still kinda ugly but I don't really have a lot of options.
For condenser clocking I can do facing straight out or fan facing the driveway. We'll see.
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