Repair-It

Sounds like it is competitive, not segment redefining.

What is wrong with that? It is definitely not over-priced like you had said. It is within the ball park of both of it's competitors.

And pretty much this:

I don't blame it on "Ecoboost" in any particular way. Ford just has a history of being extremely optimistic.
•Everyone remembers the '99 Cobra debacle.
•The mid 2000s GT (the Saleen-built "GT40", not the Mustang) was outrun by the C6 Z06.
•The GT500, even in 2012 550hp form, was outrun (and outhandled - see LL comparison) by the 556hp, 500lb-heavier CTS-V.
•The 2013 GT500, amazing as it is/was, was billed as a 200MPH car, but in a real two-way test couldn't hit 190. C&D put it and the ZL1 on chassis dynos and discovered that the two were closer in WHP than the engine ratings suggested. Since GM uses the SAE standard - and since IRS setups with CV halfshafts drop more power than a rigid axle - the obvious conclusion is that the GT500 was over-rated.
•The Focus ST is nowhere near as quick/fast as the Neon SRT-4, Cobalt SS, or MS3 - yet it has similar power ratings (and more torque, IIRC).
•The GT350 is no more powerful than an LS7 Z28/Z06 (an average of chassis dyno results indicate pretty much parity in terms of peak power, and of course a big defict WRT torque). It's slower than a new Camaro everywhere except above 6500RPM in top gear.

I'm sure this will be the recipient of many ferociously defensive downvotes, in a hail of accusations of being a Ford hater. But I'm not; as I said, I think Ford deserves helluva kudos for building stuff like this (nobody else in the US is doing very much of it). And their cars are not bad. But they so often over-hype them, taking a 'best-case' approach to marketing. The 2003 Cobra was good not just because it was fast...it really came out of nowhere, with no big hype machine.

billgiacheri wrote:What is wrong with that? It is definitely not over-priced like you had said. It is within the ball park of both of it's competitors.

Agreed, in its class. But this class is not the best value for performance despite what anyone says.

This thing is also putting out its power at 23 psi. How much headroom does it really have? I know how much anything with an LS has...

I just think the small turbo AWD hatch is over-rated and played out. There was a time when this class was embarrassing pony cars. We are no longer in those times.

billgiacheri wrote:You are wrong about the V6 Camaro...

Camaro Base 32,290 as tested 35,000

0-60 5.4 Vs. 4.6
1/4 14.1 @ 100 vs. 13.4 @105

Skid: .91 vs. .98

The V6 Camaro should get spanked pretty good by the RS. Sorry, you are totally wrong.

So...In the same issue, C/D tested a Camaro LT RS V6, with manual. I don't know where the time above came from but I maintain it is closer to what the Gen 5 could do with the V6.

5-60 Focus RS: 5.7
5-60 Camaro V6: 6.0

Right there you can see how the two behave when you are NOT doing a redline clutch dump. Not that different, as the power to weight would indicate, and the fact that the Camaro has no problem with traction at this power level.

1/4 mile Focus RS: 13.4 @ 105
1/4 mile Camaro V6: 13.7 @ 103

Be reasonable. The Focus RS is not light years faster. In fact, it would be a driver's race.

Skidpad Focus RS: 0.98 G on Michelin PSS
Skidpad Camaro V6: 0.91 G on all seasons

You can see easily how a 1LE with good tires can probably match this.

70-0 braking Focus RS: 158 ft
70-0 braking Camaro V6: 152 ft

Ok, both of these cars stop well, but would you really expect a Camaro V6 to be better than an uber "rally" car for the street?

Random tidbit: Focus RS odometer read 6.5% high, which I would assume would translate to a 6.5% optimistic speedo. Just what we need - more bros running around in these cars saying "I just hit 150 and it was still pulling!" when it was actually barely 141. Sigh. More Ford hype. Even the speedometer is hyped.

Price wise, as tested was $35k to the Focus RS $40k.

The Focus RS base MSRP is around $36k, but a Camaro V6 that runs these numbers is $30k. I don't see any options on this car that add performance. 20" wheels, in fact, hinder performance.

EDIT: A 1LT V6 with the cooling and brake package, which requires the 20" wheels (and all season run flats...ugh), is $30k. So, you can scratch at a Focus RS for $6k less. I do wonder what the 1LT V6 1LE will cost.

Let's face it, almost no one is going to cross shop the RS against a Camaro. They are two cars with two different missions. The RS is better suited to being an only car for an enthusiast in any climate due to the 4 doors, hatch and AWD. It also sounds like it has an edge to it, not unlike the Evo, which I like. I guess the real question is: Is the RS this era's Integra Type R or this era's SRT-4 Neon? I would lean more towards the Integra Type R since the chassis tuning appears to be spot-on. A good chassis is timeless and provides satisfaction long after the car is no longer the fastest in its class.

I am very skeptical of the 2 turns lock to lock.

And the extremely rigid ride.

It is too heavy.

Why is this hands down better than the STI or Golf R?

I'm sorry but this car is awesome. .98 on the skid pad! 0-60 in 4.6 is faster than the Gen 5 SS. I don't understand the hate for this car. There is absolutely no way this wouldn't be insane fun to drive on back roads. You don't have to like it, but to totally discredit it seems pretty closed minded. I don't understand how you can stand by much lesser cars like the HHR and Cobalt SS, and even talk highly about the 25K Cruze and totally hate on this. It just seems illogical. Congratulations Ford. You did good. Also good on you for allowing it to have the Mustang engine with more HP than the Mustang. GM would not have something like that.


My only gripe is I am not a fan of the exterior styling, but that is what this segment is. I would love that power plant/drivetrain in my 3. I already enjoy the 3 with 148 HP, imagine 350... I refuse to trash this car. They did a great job. 10 years ago these were super car numbers.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/200 ... upes-1.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/200 ... coupes.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/200 ... astars.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/200 ... tars-1.pdf - same road holding as the Ford GT and Ferrari.

billgiacheri wrote:. I don't understand how you can stand by much lesser cars like the HHR and Cobalt SS, and even talk highly about the 25K Cruze and totally hate on this. It just seems illogical.

Because of Ford's hype machine. This car is overrated. Which does NOT mean that it is not a good car. Just that i think it is overrated. This segment is overrated.

I like when cars are underrated and under appreciated. Well, I don't LIKE it but I will champion their benefits because no one else is. Cars that don't get any love but are very good. You can probably see a trend here (with the outlier being the 2016 Camaro just because it is so damn good).

It's like politics. If you step into the spot light, prepare to get criticized.

billgiacheri wrote:
My only gripe is I am not a fan of the exterior styling, but that is what this segment is. I would love that power plant/drivetrain in my 3. I already enjoy the 3 with 148 HP, imagine 350... I refuse to trash this car. They did a great job. 10 years ago these were super car numbers.

Your problem is you are having the wrong argument. I don't think performance is outstanding measured with a 2016 ruler. I mean it is if you are used to a 2009 Mazda 3. I think Bob touched on why this car may be special. But even then I am thinking that there's nothing really amazing here except a fun car. And there are lots of fun cars.

But that 105 mph trap is a bummer. This would have been much more significant 15 years ago when...LS1 F-bodies were that fast but at least this would destroy those in any other situation. In 2016, no. Played out.

billgiacheri wrote: 10 years ago these were super car numbers.

Agreed. But we've had a rash of cars that have upset the super car business. There is precedent for this. The Focus RS is not the first, by a long shot. I will admit that 0.98 G is on the high end of what is available for the money but it is probably not the highest. And the fact is, it is not going to be much ahead of a V6 1LE Camaro (which may be a bit cheaper) in a track situation where you need all aspects of performance. Except the RS needed 23 psi and really fancy AWD to do the same thing as an N/A V6, RWD car of the same weight. I admit this remains to be seen and I eagerly await it.

I won't argue fun. But I will argue total performance. I've always had a problem with cars that make you feel like you are driving faster than you really are. Because you are going to be disappointed when you come across something truly high performance.