Repair-It

bill25 wrote:I never said any of that. I mean, it sounds like the Mustang is getting better performance wise, and looks like a Mustang for the most part. I am not saying I would want a Mustang because Ford did a better job making a Mustang looking Mustang than Chevy did making a Camaro looking Camaro. I just wish I didn't feel like Chevy was on the wrong track with the Camaro aesthetic.

I know, it was a straw man. And "wrong track" is the first reasonable thing you've said about the 2019 refresh. I have a problem with the binary, extreme language.

I don't care what other people think about it, I think it is ugly.

Ah but you do. You love to tell me how all these people you know agree with you about some styling thing, as evidence that your opinion is right! If you were really right, they'd sell zero of them, because a Camaro SS is not an appliance car. Or, your contention is that, basically, blind people are buying them.

I was referring to other opinions just to say I wasn't the only one on the planet that thought the refresh was in the wrong direction.

Again, "wrong direction" is perfectly reasonable and we can discuss that.

A lot of people buy stuff as an appliance and don't care what it looks like. I mean people bought the Aztek. That doesn't mean it looked good.

Camaros in general are not appliances and the SS trim is certainly not an appliance. So like I said above, unless they sell zero of them, then obviously your opinion is extreme and you just don't realize it.

Basically, I am a Camaro fan, and if they make it ugly, I think that sucks. That doesn't seem like it would be difficult to understand. And yeah, details matter. Maybe not on an econobox appliance, but for something you want to get into, I think it is normal to care about details. That is what keeps the aftermarket alive. People want to customize to their preferences.

Never said looks don't matter more on a car like the Camaro. But you talk in absolutes like it's a "fact" that the 2019 is "ugly." I will never agree with any of that as you've laid it out. The only "fact" is you do not like the 2019 refresh and would not buy one as a result. That is fine even if I think it is extreme. My issue is when you try to make arguments that you aren't just expressing an opinion that the 2019 refresh is "ugly", but it is a FACT. That's where I have a problem - and here's a fact: lots of people agreeing with something does not make it a fact, either. I am not disagreeing that YOU think it's ugly - but that it is FACT that it is ugly. Do you see the distinction there?

My issue is when you try to make arguments that you aren't just expressing an opinion that the 2019 refresh is "ugly", but it is a FACT.

Me saying it was a fact was a joke. I thought that it was obvious that opinions were not facts.


Also, just because people are buying them doesn't mean it looks good, again with the Aztek. If you are a GM fan, you literally have no other option except the Corvette now, which is more expensive. So for other options you could buy a Mustang or Challenger. So yeah, in that sense, I think people are dealing with the looks to get a Camaro, vice actually thinking it looks better than previous models. It is all about priorities, and just because someone prioritizes GM, or Chevy, or performance doesn't mean they think the refresh looks better, or even that good. There aren't many options, which may be forcing people to let looks slide and get the Camaro as opposed to going to get a Mustang or Challenger. It will be interesting to see how things work out as the Mustang performance gets better and in my opinion the Camaro gets uglier. Do people jump ship and go to the Mustang?

So like 60k sales or whatever it ends up being is just people being loyal to GM?

Also, don't forget rental fleets. The Camaro is regularly available to me. So much so that 75% of my rentals have been Camaros so far this year

In all seriousness, I don't think the styling is bad and the car has far and away the best chassis in the class. A dealer near me is selling brand new 2019 SS 1LEs for $36,995. I'm not sure you can buy a Civic Type R for that with the markups that are still going on, so this represents an incredible performance bargain.