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Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:53 pm
by kevm14
A neighbor down the street from me when I was around 10 had a red Z24 of this generation. It seemed like a cool car at the time. His dad had a black T-bird Turbo Coupe. And the family car was an ~86 Electra wagon. So I approved of their vehicle choices.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:31 pm
by bill25
I finally found a Car and Driver review!

http://www.v6z24.com/specs/images/88cad ... rticle.pdf
v6z24-88cad-z24-article.pdf
It is for the 1988 2.8 manual. 0-60 in 8.3, skid pad was .82 G's with all seasons.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:39 pm
by bill25
According to
http://www.autorooster.com/0-60-times/mazda/mazda-3/

The stats on my 2.0 Mazda3 is:
2004 – 2009
Mazda 3 i
0-60: 9.5 sec
1/4 mile: 17.7 sec
Engine: I4 – 2.0 L DOHC 16 valve
HP: 148 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 135 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:06 am
by bill25
More Mazda3 stats:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/mazda-3-road-test

For instance, the car pulled 0.87 g on the skidpad, a distinct improvement on the 0.79 g showing by the Protegé5 back in 2002 and more consistent with sports cars than econoboxes. A 70-to-0-mph braking distance of 169 feet is likewise exceptional.

compared to the Z24: .82 g, and 70 to 0 was 191, so the 3 is decently better in handling.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:53 am
by kevm14
I would say that many people's memories are perhaps a little too critical of the Z24. While it wasn't a bargain, it did provide significantly above average performance for the era.

You did get V6 torque and soundtrack for 4 cylinder pricing. And it was not really a heavy car, so performance was decent.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:11 pm
by bill25
Swap info from:

http://www.v6z24.com/howto/3400/intro
http://www.v6z24.com/howto/3400/parts

Chapter 1: Introduction / Why should I swap?

3400 V6 In this chapter we will help you to understand what exactly you're getting yourself in to. After reading this you should be able to make an educated decision as to whether this swap is right for you and have a good idea of the benefits & pitfalls of performing this engine swap

What is the 3400 & why it is better than your current motor?
Then 3400 is one of GM's 3rd generation 60°V6 motors. The engines used in our 2nd generation J-Bodies is the gen 2 version of the 60° V6. The Gen 3 motors show significant improvement over the gen 2 variations in power & fuel efficiency. The 3100 is also a gen 3 motor and depending on year, is nearly identical to the 3400, save for the bore.
GM rates the 3400 V6 at around 185 crank horsepower depending on application. All the motors are the same between applications (2005 Equinox being the exception, you can't use that motor, more on that later). The only reason they are rated at different horsepowers between models is because of the differences in intake exhaust & tuning on that particular model. There are several dyno results that prove a stock 3400 in a J-body will make 180-190 HP at the WHEELS. So GM has either under rated or under tuned these motors in their vehicles.
So this means you are looking at approximately 210 HP at the flywheel. Quite an improvement over the 140 HP your tired 3.1 is rated at, or the 130 of your 2.8. You will shave at least 1 full second off your quarter mile time, with basically stock 3400 swapped cavaliers running as fast as 14.5 seconds at 93mph through the 1320! If that isn't enough reason to do this swap, I don't know what is!

Where to get your 3400 Engine
The junkyard! www.car-part.com is your friend for locating your new motor. But first you need to know what to search for.
The 3400 V6 Can be found in the following GM models.
•Buick Rendezvous
•Chevy Monte Carlo
•Chevy Lumina APV
•Chevy Venture
•Olds Alero
•Olds Silhouette
•Pontiac Aztec
•Pontiac Grand Am
•Pontiac Trans Sport
The 3400 became available as early as 1996 in the trucks, 1999 in the cars. It is generally advisable to get an engine from a 2000+ model year if possible due to some beneficial design changes. Engines before 2003 were very susceptible to a leaking Lower Intake Manifold. If you get one of these motors no matter what the mileage, plan to replace the LIM before installing the engine to save yourself the headache & possibility of ruining the engine.

What to look for in a 3400 & what you will spend
Expect to pay anywhere from $300 - $800 for a 3400 depending on your area & the mileage of the motor. I picked up my 2001 engine with 6k on it for $600. Many junkyards will deliver the engine to your door.
I would look for 2000+ model year engine with less than 50,000 miles on it. Make sure the junkyard has some sort of warrantee in case the engine is blown.
If you are swapping into a 92-94 J-body, it is even better if you get the motor from a Grand Am, as those engine have the proper fuel line routing that will plug right in to your quick connect fittings. <91 J-Bodies don't have the quick connects, so it doesn't matter. You don't HAVE to use the Grand Am fuel lines to make it work, it just makes it that much cleaner & easier.
How hard is this swap & how long will it take me?

If you have decent mechanical skills, this swap is pretty straight forward. I would not recommend it for a complete novice unless you have somebody more experienced to help out. You'll need a full set of basic mechanics tools, engine hoist, jacks & jack stands. If you have ever pulled an engine before, this swap will be no problem for you, as it is basically just an R&R with a few extra modifications.
This swap can go as quick or be as drawn out as your want. I would plan on having the car down for at least 2 weeks, but could easily take up to a month to get all the little bugs worked out. If you have a lot of time to devote to the project, you could probably get it all hammered out in less than a week, but don't try to rush things & make mistakes. If you have your 3400 all prepped & ready to go and are really determined, you could probably complete the swap in a weekend, but still plan on extra time for working out little bugs.


The basic changes required to make this engine work in the J-body
There are a few somewhat major modifications that must take place & many small ones. Here are the major items & considerations. •Custom front motor mount bracket must be made or purchased. J-body performance sells this mount, or if you have fabrication skills, you can easily make your own.
•A custom downpipe will need to be made. Pretty much any muffler shop can do this for you.
•The computer. You can run this motor on the stock tuning by swapping in your old injectors. It will run, but not optimally. The best option is to use the 2000+ 3400 multec 2 injectors and purchase a custom tuned chip. Burn is currently selling chips for this setup.
•All other changes are minor, such as moving the wiring for a few sensors, a few different lines & hoses, etc. All this is listed in the parts list chapter

Things you DON'T need to change
•Your stock V6 transmission will bolt up to the 3400 with no modifications. Just use the clutch (performance clutch recommended) and flywheel from the old motor. If you have an automatic, you will need to use a Quad 4 throttle box in order for the kickdown cable to function
•A complete computer & wiring swap is not necessary. All the 3400 engines run OBD2 from the factory. But in our swap, we will re-use the our wiring harness and computer with some slight modifications.

Why you should choose the 3400 over other possible engine swaps

The 3400 swap has proven itself time & time again as a simple swap with noticeable gains in power & efficiency. the 3800 SC swap is another swap that many people consider. That engine is a 90° engine that is a MUCH tighter fit into the J-body engine bay. Many more modifications & headaches are needed to make that swap work, for not much more power over the 3400.





3400 Engine Swap

Chapter 2: What parts am I going to need & what will this cost me?

This chapter lists the majority of the parts you will need to perform the 3400 swap. There are variations between Jbody years & engine years that may affect this parts list. All know possibilities are listed below.

1) The Engine!
Of course you'll need a 3400 engine to perform this swap. www.car-part.com is your friend for locating your new motor.
The Intro page contains more info on locating an engine & what to look for.

2) Front Engine mount bracket
The block casting on the 3400 is different than on the 2.8/3.1 motors, so a custom bracket from the engine to the front mount must be fabricated. jbodyperformance.com sells the bracket, or if you have decent fabrication skills, you can weld up your own.
Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket Mount Bracket
3) Upper radiator hose
Since the thermostat outlet on the 3400 points out at a different angle, you will need to replace this Upper hose with a Lower hose from a '99 Pontiac Montana. The only modification to make this hose work is cutting it to length.
Summit Part #: GTR-61720
Autozone Part #: M-595
Montana Radiator Hose
4) Power Steering Pump
You need to get a power steering pump from a 3100/3400 motor. You cannot use your old PS pump because of the changes to the timing cover. Your best bet is to snag one from the junkyard if your motor didn't come with one. If you motor came with one, just make sure it doesn't have the Electronically Variable Output (EVO). Basically, if it has an electrical connector on it, you cannot use it!
5) Power steering line
The hard power steering line with the bends that works the best comes from a '94 Grand Am 3100. This is the full hard steel pressure line, not the line with the hose on it.
Powercraft part #80224
PS Line PS Line
6) Throttle cable & bracket
The throttle cable bolts up to the throttle body on the opposite side, so you need a new throttle cable. The best cable found to work is one from a '95 Beretta or Corsica.
If your engine came from a truck or van, then you need to get the throttle cable bracket that bolts on top of the TB from a CAR.
Throttle Cable Throttle Cable Bracket Throttle Cable Bracket Throttle Cable Bracket
7) 3 wire coolant temp sensor
The gen2 motor uses 2 coolant temp sensors. A single wire sensor on the rear head & a 2 wire sensor by the thermostat housing. The gen3 motor only has one sensor, so you will need to purchase a 3 wire sensor so that both the ECM & temperature gauge received output from one sensor.
GM/Delco Part # 10096181
Temp Sensor
8) Other coolant hoses
A package of bulk 5/8" heater hose should take care of everything else. A better solution is to grab the hard steal lines from a 3100 Beretta as they route down right by the heater core so everything will be more like stock. One of these lines requires a cut & weld to work properly however.
9) EGR considerations

If you have a 2000+ motor, you can adapt your EGR to work real easily. If you have a <=1999 engine, you'll need to purchase an adapter from the 60°V6 store.


10) Alternator considerations
You need to re-use your stock alternator. Use the gen3 alternator causes clearance problems with the blower motor

11) Downpipe
You'll need to have a custom downpipe fabricated off of the rear exhaust manifold. The downpipe in the cars these motors came out of comes off at the wrong angle and will hit the firewall.
The O2 sensor is also subject to hitting on the tierod ends, so re-locating the O2 sensor to the downpipe is advisable.
Downpipe Downpipe
12) Other Misc items
•If you don't have the Alero fuel lines, or you don't have a 92-94 J-body, you will need 2 brass compression fittings to modify your fuel lines. 5/16" & 3/8".
•If you have a 5 speed, you should probably upgrade the clutch. The stock clutch won't hold the extra power for long
•If you have an automatic, you need the throttle box from a quad 4 motor to setup the kickdown cable for the auto trans
•Other misc items...


3400 Swap Shopping List

Take this list with you to make sure you get everything you need

1.Front Mount Bracket - Build or purchase from jbodyperformance
2.Radiator Hose - Summit Part # GTR-61720, Autozone Part # M-595
3.Power steering hard line - Powercraft part #80224
4.Throttle cable from '95 Beretta/Corsica
5.3 wire temp sensor - GM/Delco Part # 10096181
6.Bulk 5/8" heater hose
7.5/16" & 3/8" compression fittings for fuel lines, if necessary
8.Performance clutch if 5 speed
9.Quad 4 throttle box if automatic
The 3400 is definitely the best bang-for-your-buck engine swap available at this point in time.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:57 pm
by bill25
Here is another idea I need to look into. I have no idea if these are compatible, but the next gen of the 3400 is the 3900. It is a 60 degree V6, that was mated to a manual in the 2006 G6 GTP.

the 3.9 produces 240 hp (179 kW) and 240 lb·ft (325 N·m) torque, with a wide torque curve. 90% of the torque is available from 1500 rpm to 5500 rpm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

The stats for that car are:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... gtp-page-2

0-60 mph - 6.2 seconds
quarter-mile - 14.9 s @ 95 mph
curb weight--3569 pounds


The Z24 is: 2,558 lb (1,160 kg) (Z24 coupe), 1000lbs lighter. Sure this setup might be a little heavier, I have to look into that.

These are on car-part for cheap:
82,669 miles $650
68,000 miles $650

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:23 pm
by kevm14
Funny thing is the Z24 with stock 3400 swap is supposedly capable of similar 1/4 mile times. It would be pretty fast with a 3900. But the 3900 was fairly uncommon and therefore will be expensive. The 3400 was in a lot of garbage (and had intake gasket issues) so it is cheap.

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:50 pm
by bill25
I would have thought that also, but, if you look at the end of my post, there are a decent amount on car-part for the same price as a 3400:

These 3900s are on car-part for cheap:
82,669 miles $650
68,000 miles $650

Re: Cavalier Z24 convertible

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:52 pm
by bill25
2600 lbs and 242 HP comes out to 10.74 lbs/hp which is actually decent. Keeping it to 2800 and squeezing 300 hp would be 9.33.

9.33 gets you into the 40K car range.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/02/best ... s-feature/

Under $25,000 – pounds per horsepower 1.2014 Ford Mustang V6 ($22,510) – 11.479
2.2014 Chevrolet Camaro V6 ($23,555) – 11.514
3.2014 Ford Focus ST ($23,625) – 12.790
4.2014 Ford Fiesta ST ($21,400) – 13.807
5.2014 Hyundai Veloster Turbo R-Spec ($21,300) – 13.930
6.2015 Volkswagen Golf GTI 4-Door ($24,995) – 14.152
7.2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop ($24,100) – 14.603
8.2014 Honda Civic Si ($22,790) – 14.644
9.2014 Mazda MX-5 Miata ($23,790) – 14.850
10.2015 Volkswagen Jetta GLI ($24,535) – 14.910

Under $50,000 – pounds per horsepower 1.2014 Ford Mustang GT ($31,210) – 8.614
2.2014 Dodge Challenger SRT ($40,485) – 9.002
3.2014 Chevrolet Camaro SS ($34,350) – 9.174
4.2014 Dodge Charger SRT ($44,385) – 9.272
5.2014 Chevrolet SS ($43,475) – 9.578
6.2014 Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG ($48,375) – 9.842
7.2014 Nissan 370Z ($29,990) – 9.873
8.2014 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec ($47,400) – 9.883
9.2014 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-Spec ($29,350) – 10.328
10.2014 Volvo S60 T6 AWD R-Design ($42,700) – 10.855

Under $100,000 – pounds per horsepower 1.2014 Ford Shelby GT500 ($55,110) – 5.808
2.2014 Jaguar F-Type R Coupe ($99,000) – 6.615
3.2014 Chevy Camaro ZL1 ($55,355) – 7.103
4.2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray ($53,000) – 7.248
5.2014 Jaguar F-Type S ($92,000)– 7.416
6.2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 ($72,300) ­­– 7.564
7.2014 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe ($64,900) – 7.585
8.2014 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan ($64,900)– 7.590
9.2014 Porsche 911 Carrera S ($98,900) – 7.688
10.2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S ($99,770)– 7.697