Garden tractor acquisition
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
It looks like I may be going in on a 48" tow behind plug aerator. The front tires of my machine are both flat and this is the season to seed. So I need to replace the front tires so that will be exciting. I have the new tires, new valve stems and borrowed Bill's manual tire machine that he got from Harbor Freight. I will have to remove the slimy Fix-a-Flat stuff I injected over the years. Or at least the portion that is around the valve stem area and where the tire bead seats on the rim; hopefully a lot of it is just sitting on the tires which are going in the garbage. I may want to clean up the inside of the wheels and possibly clearcoat or something if I can even find my clearcoat rattle can. I'm not doing tubes so I do need that to seal.
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
I borrowed Bill's Harbor Freight tire changing machine. It was a really awful job and I ruined (tore) at least one bead area on each tire. However the tires are still holding pressure this morning and due to the application of the bead sealer I may have gotten lucky. Then again it is too early to call.
Pics and more info to come.
Old tire. I have little doubt it is original, 30+ years old. Removal is easy. Pull dust cap, pop out the retaining clip, remove washer and the wheel comes off the spindle. I clamped the base of the tire changing machine into my vice. This would have been impossible not in a vice. Even in a vice it was very difficult. Getting the tire off isn't too bad. I also installed my new valve stem. But look how nice the inside of the wheel looks! Why does it look that good? Shouldn't it have been filled with Fix-a-Flat? Apparently I never held the can upside down even though I know I saw yellow goo flow through the clear hose. WTF? Just use pliers to yank out the old stem. Spray a little soapy water on the stem and pull through with pliers. I had no issue here. Another shot of the really nice inner wheel area. Right but look what happens trying to get the new tire installed. The amount of force this required was ridiculous as I was moving my whole workbench around and bending some of the tool stuff (don't worry, I bent it back). But the edge of the rim tears a huge rip into the bead. It's ridiculous. I guess if the edge of the rim was rolled or rounded this would have been better. Also I found these 4-ply new tires to be extra stiff which just made everything even harder. Maybe I should have rounded the edge off with a file or something. Just seems like I shouldn't have to do that...also I used a ton of soapy water spray. To get the beads to seat, I removed the valve core and shoved the end of my blower nozzle into the hollow valve stem. This worked. It only took a few seconds of spraying air and sort of screwing around with the tire and the air pressure expanded the tire sidewalls enough for each bead to take a seat. Once that happed I removed the nozzle, all the air blew back out of the valve stem, and I could reinstall the core before inflating again. But I did get both installed of course. Also my wheel bushings were looking on the dry side so I might say I need to lube that twice a season, not once at the beginning. The king pins were fine as the old grease started to come out within the first pump. The other wheel had some rust or other build-up on the inner wheel that I wire wheeled off. That may have been Fix-a-Flat remnant but compared to how much I thought I put in, it was hardly anything. Very odd. I inflated both to around 20 psi just to help everything stay exactly in place and seated. I did use this to help the beads seal which may save my ass.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G ... UTF8&psc=1
I put it on initially thinking it would help lube also but I think it just worked against me. Then I think I went to window cleaner (was suggested in the manual) and then soapy water. I ended up just applying to the rim and stuff after the beads got over the edge.
So we'll see if this holds up. If it does not I have some options of varying appeal:
- Stuff tubes in there
- Buy new tires and have a mower shop mount and assume they will not harm the bead (I'd like them to apply a bead sealer, too, but who knows)
- See if brother in law's car/truck tire machine can adapt down to a 6" lawn tractor wheel (would need new tires here, too)
- Possibly mark the tire where it is leaking, break the bead on the tire machine, and just try to goop extra bead sealer on the area that is leaking
Pics and more info to come.
Old tire. I have little doubt it is original, 30+ years old. Removal is easy. Pull dust cap, pop out the retaining clip, remove washer and the wheel comes off the spindle. I clamped the base of the tire changing machine into my vice. This would have been impossible not in a vice. Even in a vice it was very difficult. Getting the tire off isn't too bad. I also installed my new valve stem. But look how nice the inside of the wheel looks! Why does it look that good? Shouldn't it have been filled with Fix-a-Flat? Apparently I never held the can upside down even though I know I saw yellow goo flow through the clear hose. WTF? Just use pliers to yank out the old stem. Spray a little soapy water on the stem and pull through with pliers. I had no issue here. Another shot of the really nice inner wheel area. Right but look what happens trying to get the new tire installed. The amount of force this required was ridiculous as I was moving my whole workbench around and bending some of the tool stuff (don't worry, I bent it back). But the edge of the rim tears a huge rip into the bead. It's ridiculous. I guess if the edge of the rim was rolled or rounded this would have been better. Also I found these 4-ply new tires to be extra stiff which just made everything even harder. Maybe I should have rounded the edge off with a file or something. Just seems like I shouldn't have to do that...also I used a ton of soapy water spray. To get the beads to seat, I removed the valve core and shoved the end of my blower nozzle into the hollow valve stem. This worked. It only took a few seconds of spraying air and sort of screwing around with the tire and the air pressure expanded the tire sidewalls enough for each bead to take a seat. Once that happed I removed the nozzle, all the air blew back out of the valve stem, and I could reinstall the core before inflating again. But I did get both installed of course. Also my wheel bushings were looking on the dry side so I might say I need to lube that twice a season, not once at the beginning. The king pins were fine as the old grease started to come out within the first pump. The other wheel had some rust or other build-up on the inner wheel that I wire wheeled off. That may have been Fix-a-Flat remnant but compared to how much I thought I put in, it was hardly anything. Very odd. I inflated both to around 20 psi just to help everything stay exactly in place and seated. I did use this to help the beads seal which may save my ass.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G ... UTF8&psc=1
I put it on initially thinking it would help lube also but I think it just worked against me. Then I think I went to window cleaner (was suggested in the manual) and then soapy water. I ended up just applying to the rim and stuff after the beads got over the edge.
So we'll see if this holds up. If it does not I have some options of varying appeal:
- Stuff tubes in there
- Buy new tires and have a mower shop mount and assume they will not harm the bead (I'd like them to apply a bead sealer, too, but who knows)
- See if brother in law's car/truck tire machine can adapt down to a 6" lawn tractor wheel (would need new tires here, too)
- Possibly mark the tire where it is leaking, break the bead on the tire machine, and just try to goop extra bead sealer on the area that is leaking
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Re: Garden tractor acquisition
I had a tough time too, but I think you may have been doing it wrong. Once I figured out the trick, I think it was a little less ridiculous. Then again, who knows if I did it right.The amount of force this required was ridiculous as I was moving my whole workbench around and bending some of the tool stuff (don't worry, I bent it back). But the edge of the rim tears a huge rip into the bead. It's ridiculous.
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
I followed the directions but maybe I should have added some improvising. Like vice grips on the rim to keep the tire from popping up and maybe different pry bars. These tires were really stiff. Maybe I could have warmed them up with my heat gun also. Didn't think I needed to do anything other than use the machine though.
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
Unless I was supposed to install the tire from the other side of the wheel. I didn't check but I assume the rim edge is the same on both sides. But if one side was more rounded that would have helped. Also I did the inner side up, which is where the valve stem is. The new stem is longer than the old and it sort of interfered with the tire changing tool.
The directions also said that the first bead should go easy and the tools may not be needed until the second bead. That was NOT my experience. I tried for quite a while to "slip" the first bead over the rim edge. There was no way in hell that was going.
The directions also said that the first bead should go easy and the tools may not be needed until the second bead. That was NOT my experience. I tried for quite a while to "slip" the first bead over the rim edge. There was no way in hell that was going.
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
The tires aren't flat yet but I have not checked the pressure to see if they have lost some. They probably have but maybe I will live with it, depending.
I think I did notice extra traction in the front with the new tires which is nice. My machine pulled the aerator very well.
I think I did notice extra traction in the front with the new tires which is nice. My machine pulled the aerator very well.
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Re: Garden tractor acquisition
https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/grd/d ... 53096.html
This is somewhat promising.
This is somewhat promising.
Not that far. Both machines I believe are basically my machine (though the Simplicity looks like a base model "small frame" variant) and one of them is the 5-speed manual version of my machine. Both have the same 12.5 hp twin as mine. The Deutz-Allis has a green 48" deck that I would think is compatible with my machine. Also comes with the thrower, frame and it looks like the Deutz has the handle on it. Only catch I think is that it looks like a 36" thrower. But for $200 (or less), I'd have two parts machines, including a hydro transaxle, the thrower, frame, lever and all that. I guess I am assuming the Deutz is the "large frame" and that the thrower was on that one. The part numbers on the last pic indicate compatibility, both the throwers and hitch frame, which is what I would expect.Deutz-Allis and Simplicity lawn/garden tractors - $200 (Franklin)
Deutz Allis lawn/garden tractor. Tractor is mid-80s. Needs battery - runs (can send video from 3/23 if you like) but difficult to keep running. Has 48” mower deck and snowblower, both in good condition. tire chains included. Transmission works forward and reverse, but lever to disengage to neutral does not. Its twin sister Simplicity with mower deck comes with it for parts if you want both. $200 for both, would like to move them together. Can help load. Please message with any questions. Cross-posted.
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Re: Garden tractor acquisition
Damn he claims it is the 42".
I think I am obligated to pick this junk up but Jamie will be furious...
I think I am obligated to pick this junk up but Jamie will be furious...
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
He offered to meet halfway if I pay full price. I kind of don't want all the machines and BS (what am I gonna do, keep them in the woods??), just the lever, thrower and hitch. So for $150 I told him I'd probably take everything. Would need to either borrow Tim's trailer or do U-Haul...great. I think I would pretty much throw away the 5212.5 as I'm not sure there is really anything on it that I want. Maybe just keep the engine...unless it is obviously trashed.
Re: Garden tractor acquisition
Well I picked up the lot. He was a normal, nice guy. Couple of teenage kids. The history of the machines goes like this:
About 15 years ago he says he bought the green Deutz from a friend or something. I don't know how much he used it to mow, but the main focus seemed to be snow removal. He had chains for the rear tires and said with the chains alone, no wheel weights or extra counter weights, he had no traction issues. Not sure I want to use chains on my driveway but that is good news I guess. I asked how the machine cleared snow and he said it was awesome. I don't think it throws the snow that far so I may do the rubber flap mod and see if I can get extra distance. Or just run it over again and hope it can just take it. For his narrow driveway I don't think he ever dealt with that concern. I did ask about horsepower limitations with the 12.5 hp and he said no issues at all. This is also good news. He did also say the lift lever gets tiring and that I might have some luck trying a beefier assist spring. He used to do his driveway and some neighbors since it was such an effective combo.
Reason for selling is the Deutz runs for about 20 minutes then quits. He did what most people do - bring it to a shop. The guy apparently didn't know these engines that well and said, eh, I could do this and that to it but it's probably not worth putting money into. Guess what I think: I think it needs a coil just like mine did. He took the battery out of it, but before he did, it did start up. The carb probably could use a rebuild as it cranked for quite a while. Probably needs the starter regreased, too. It did sound pretty good though. But where I'm at with the Deutz is to make it whole and probably keep it for snow removal rather than trying to switch over my Simplicity. Plus my machine is in better shape and it seems like the snow stuff will just make it rust.
So what's with the Simplicity 5212.5? He bought it as a parts machine for a single part. The steering linkage stud snapped on the Deutz (I have the old and I bet Adam could weld) and he stole the one from the Simplicity, since that parts machine was cheaper than a new steering rod (hilarious). Other than that it is probably junk. He said the only thing he really was told is the engine leaks oil from the main seal. I don't think that machine has much to donate though it did come with a car battery that I am charging now. It's probably dead. I may take a few things off but not much else. I may see if I can get the engine running. It is not seized. Otherwise that thing is basically scrap. In a parallel universe I could build it into some kind of lawn mower racer but I dunno if that is really going to happen. Again I may see if I can get it running and figure out how many things it really needs to drive (like the rear tires seated and inflated which I may be able to do if they hold air). A better plan is probably to scrap it.
The green machine I think is worth spending a little time/money on and having a dedicated snow machine. It came with a bucket of stuff including the factory snow/cold plates that cover some of the air intake on the hood so the air gets pulled past the heads. Helps with both cold weather operation as well as keeping snow/ice/rain out of the top of the engine area.
Oh, it turns out the 48" deck is a 42" deck, same as mine (but green). That is kind of a bummer. No one knows what size deck they have as when I bought mine, I think it was advertised at 50" or something like that (which is not a valid size option). It's just so hard apparently.
Some pics.
He had them lined up ready for racing. The Deutz-Allis 613 hydro. Otherwise known, I guess, as exactly the same as my Simplicity 5212.5 hydro. By the way, the rear tires on this definitely look to have more tread than mine so I may swap the wheels if I end up getting rid of it. Since I already offered $150 via e-mail, and the deck turned out to be 42" not 48", I maintained my offer of $150 and he took it. That was easy. He was happy to get rid of everything all at once - and it sold quickly since I had a saved search for just this stuff (well some of it). Everything fit with space to spare on the 6x12. It may have been possible to fit 4 of them, two side by side, with no decks. Getting them in was really not a big deal with two guys lifting the rear. One thing: the green tractor no longer has a functional neutral setting on the hydro trans. He said one day it wouldn't go into neutral but otherwise works fine. I guess not a huge deal and maybe I can free it up anyway. Looking at the chute turning cable/rod, he said it does look kinda hokey but works very well, and said unlike a worm/pinion style, this does not jam up with snow/ice. I know these are older machines but overall I think they were very well made. I am kind of into them at this point. Parking situation. Not really an issue - I may want to tarp the Deutz. Bill will suggest keeping it there in the winter (backed in) so I can just go after it snows but I still like keeping it under the deck and there may actually be room. Also my camera lens is getting hazy/linty again. Goddamnit. The wide angle is pretty good but the regular is quite hazy. He made a dolly out of a thin board and some casters. So I can roll the Simplicity around now. The Deutz I guess I am planning on getting running so the lack of neutral shouldn't be too big of a concern. The Simplicity also has the lame 36" deck. It is a low option 5212.5 and probably the "small frame" variant, whatever that really means. Looking at it more closely it doesn't look to be in THAT bad of shape... So there's the deck leaning precariously. I may move it but it's not terribly in the way there. Not sure what I am going to do with it long term. It should be a green replica of my 42" orange deck. We dropped the snow thrower in front of my Simplicity and then I pulled it up pretty close. I think I could see backing in the Deutz and having that be under the deck (maybe tarp the thrower or the whole thing since rain can blow in from the side. In the summer I'd put the Deutz on the inside and my Simplicity on the outside I guess. Seems fairly reasonable. Overall I think I did really well for $150. The Deutz is going to basically need what my Simpicity needed - a battery, a coil and probably a carb rebuild (and the carb I can probably wait on for now). And it could probably use a starter service/greasing. New gas cap/gauge. That is pretty amazing for $150 when you think about it as the thrower alone is worth more. On the off chance there is something wrong with the Deutz or I otherwise decide not to keep it, I have everything I need to put the thrower on my machine which is obviously still a good deal.
That's another reason I like these - unlike a John Deere, Cub Cadet or other brands, the older ones seem to not be worth a lot since the brand is less recognizable so you can get a lot of machine for little money, and they are good machines.
About 15 years ago he says he bought the green Deutz from a friend or something. I don't know how much he used it to mow, but the main focus seemed to be snow removal. He had chains for the rear tires and said with the chains alone, no wheel weights or extra counter weights, he had no traction issues. Not sure I want to use chains on my driveway but that is good news I guess. I asked how the machine cleared snow and he said it was awesome. I don't think it throws the snow that far so I may do the rubber flap mod and see if I can get extra distance. Or just run it over again and hope it can just take it. For his narrow driveway I don't think he ever dealt with that concern. I did ask about horsepower limitations with the 12.5 hp and he said no issues at all. This is also good news. He did also say the lift lever gets tiring and that I might have some luck trying a beefier assist spring. He used to do his driveway and some neighbors since it was such an effective combo.
Reason for selling is the Deutz runs for about 20 minutes then quits. He did what most people do - bring it to a shop. The guy apparently didn't know these engines that well and said, eh, I could do this and that to it but it's probably not worth putting money into. Guess what I think: I think it needs a coil just like mine did. He took the battery out of it, but before he did, it did start up. The carb probably could use a rebuild as it cranked for quite a while. Probably needs the starter regreased, too. It did sound pretty good though. But where I'm at with the Deutz is to make it whole and probably keep it for snow removal rather than trying to switch over my Simplicity. Plus my machine is in better shape and it seems like the snow stuff will just make it rust.
So what's with the Simplicity 5212.5? He bought it as a parts machine for a single part. The steering linkage stud snapped on the Deutz (I have the old and I bet Adam could weld) and he stole the one from the Simplicity, since that parts machine was cheaper than a new steering rod (hilarious). Other than that it is probably junk. He said the only thing he really was told is the engine leaks oil from the main seal. I don't think that machine has much to donate though it did come with a car battery that I am charging now. It's probably dead. I may take a few things off but not much else. I may see if I can get the engine running. It is not seized. Otherwise that thing is basically scrap. In a parallel universe I could build it into some kind of lawn mower racer but I dunno if that is really going to happen. Again I may see if I can get it running and figure out how many things it really needs to drive (like the rear tires seated and inflated which I may be able to do if they hold air). A better plan is probably to scrap it.
The green machine I think is worth spending a little time/money on and having a dedicated snow machine. It came with a bucket of stuff including the factory snow/cold plates that cover some of the air intake on the hood so the air gets pulled past the heads. Helps with both cold weather operation as well as keeping snow/ice/rain out of the top of the engine area.
Oh, it turns out the 48" deck is a 42" deck, same as mine (but green). That is kind of a bummer. No one knows what size deck they have as when I bought mine, I think it was advertised at 50" or something like that (which is not a valid size option). It's just so hard apparently.
Some pics.
He had them lined up ready for racing. The Deutz-Allis 613 hydro. Otherwise known, I guess, as exactly the same as my Simplicity 5212.5 hydro. By the way, the rear tires on this definitely look to have more tread than mine so I may swap the wheels if I end up getting rid of it. Since I already offered $150 via e-mail, and the deck turned out to be 42" not 48", I maintained my offer of $150 and he took it. That was easy. He was happy to get rid of everything all at once - and it sold quickly since I had a saved search for just this stuff (well some of it). Everything fit with space to spare on the 6x12. It may have been possible to fit 4 of them, two side by side, with no decks. Getting them in was really not a big deal with two guys lifting the rear. One thing: the green tractor no longer has a functional neutral setting on the hydro trans. He said one day it wouldn't go into neutral but otherwise works fine. I guess not a huge deal and maybe I can free it up anyway. Looking at the chute turning cable/rod, he said it does look kinda hokey but works very well, and said unlike a worm/pinion style, this does not jam up with snow/ice. I know these are older machines but overall I think they were very well made. I am kind of into them at this point. Parking situation. Not really an issue - I may want to tarp the Deutz. Bill will suggest keeping it there in the winter (backed in) so I can just go after it snows but I still like keeping it under the deck and there may actually be room. Also my camera lens is getting hazy/linty again. Goddamnit. The wide angle is pretty good but the regular is quite hazy. He made a dolly out of a thin board and some casters. So I can roll the Simplicity around now. The Deutz I guess I am planning on getting running so the lack of neutral shouldn't be too big of a concern. The Simplicity also has the lame 36" deck. It is a low option 5212.5 and probably the "small frame" variant, whatever that really means. Looking at it more closely it doesn't look to be in THAT bad of shape... So there's the deck leaning precariously. I may move it but it's not terribly in the way there. Not sure what I am going to do with it long term. It should be a green replica of my 42" orange deck. We dropped the snow thrower in front of my Simplicity and then I pulled it up pretty close. I think I could see backing in the Deutz and having that be under the deck (maybe tarp the thrower or the whole thing since rain can blow in from the side. In the summer I'd put the Deutz on the inside and my Simplicity on the outside I guess. Seems fairly reasonable. Overall I think I did really well for $150. The Deutz is going to basically need what my Simpicity needed - a battery, a coil and probably a carb rebuild (and the carb I can probably wait on for now). And it could probably use a starter service/greasing. New gas cap/gauge. That is pretty amazing for $150 when you think about it as the thrower alone is worth more. On the off chance there is something wrong with the Deutz or I otherwise decide not to keep it, I have everything I need to put the thrower on my machine which is obviously still a good deal.
That's another reason I like these - unlike a John Deere, Cub Cadet or other brands, the older ones seem to not be worth a lot since the brand is less recognizable so you can get a lot of machine for little money, and they are good machines.
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