Reliability of the GM 2.8L V6 and discussion of 80s cars

[bill25]

Most problems were:
Sable (100K miles): Alternator - broke down
Radiator leaked
Engine overheated - broke down repeatedly - dead

Topaz (140K miles): wiring harnesses - broke down
Leaked quarts of oil
Leaked radiator fluid
Overheated - broke down - dead
Z-24: computer - didn't start - broke down
This ended up overheating around 160K and had no previous radiator/overheating problems. Something just went and took out the whole motor. The block cracked - broke down - dead.

Jimmy - transfer case blew out - broke down in Vermont in 2 wheel drive???
Motor parts found in the oil pan after bad noises heard and taken to the shop - dead

There was also a lot of "regular maintenance" that needed to be done on all of these.

Delta 88 was cool, but mechanically sucked, the cutlass Ciera sucked at everything except hitting trees.

Monte rotted to nothing, the transmission shifted very hard (audible bang into second), sold running! for 1K, I think I got 900.

None of these were as bad as my friend Theresa's New Yorker. That needed 4 transmissions. One thing I give GM credit for: I NEVER needed a transmission. I also hope Ford learned how to cool engines.

[bill25]

Kevin, I don't know where all the numbers come from, but I was alive in the late 90's/early 2000's, and Hondas and Toyotas were everywhere. There is no way that they didn't gain market share during this time.

I am not even saying that to sound like a know-it-all but seriously, how can you say that they didn't sell more cars then than 1985.

[kevm14]

So on your used car experience, and we'll never know the answer to any of this, but I guess I would just like you to do a thought exercise and first figure out what Japanese car you could have bought (year/make/model/condition) for the equivalent money of what you spent on those used cars you listed. Then think about what experiences you may have had with them.

Overall, your diatribe about switching to the Mazda 626 (for like twice what you ever paid for any previous used car) as a breath of fresh air in 2002 or whatever, reminds me a LOT of the arguments Mac users used to make. They'd say "geez, this $2000 MacBook sure is a better computer than those $350 Best Buy Windows laptops I used to buy. Apple is superior, and I experienced the quality first hand!"

You probably still have a valid point in all of this but it's far more nuanced than I think you're letting on. I think it is entirely possible that Japanese cars of the 80s and 90s would last longer with ZERO maintenance/repairs (even oil change slacking). But I've always found American cars easy and affordable to service. And I was happy to trade that for lower initial purchase price (poor resale makes better used car buys, generally).

I admit some stupid stuff can frustrate or even strand. I mean back at WPI my Caprice famously was blowing ECM fuses which left the car totally dead in the water. Eventually it happened on the highway and I had to have it towed even after replacing the fuse (just blew again). I diagnosed the problem and it turned out to be a $26 EGR vacuum control solenoid (somehow the solenoid became shorted internally), and I never had the problem again. I really don't consider this a damning experience (and I think it would be insane to draw some ridiculous conclusion like "Caprices break down") but if you do, then I'm thinking you may want to drive Corollas for the rest of your life.

Alternators...not a major issue. Did my parents' 96 Maxima make it well past 200k on its first alternator? Sure, but the replacement was a lot more expensive than an American car alternator, too. And it was a ROYAL pain to change.

A lot of the other issues just sound like poor maintenance or abuse from the previous owner. S-10s may be known for going through lower ball joints at a higher than average pace, but not exploding transfer cases. Either previous abuse or low fluid or both probably caused that.

In the end, you have your experiences and opinions and I have mine. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[kevm14]

Kevin, I don't know where all the numbers come from, but I was alive in the late 90's/early 2000's, and Hondas and Toyotas were everywhere. There is no way that they didn't gain market share during this time.

I am not even saying that to sound like a know-it-all but seriously, how can you say that they didn't sell more cars then than 1985.

Those numbers came from the first image I had (from the US Census). I put it into Excel to graph.

[Adam]

What are we arguing about again?

My '94 Cadillac with a Chevy engine is nearly at 209K. I replaced the factory alternator at 190K because the bearings were starting to make noise.

[kevm14]

Tell him about the time you tried to blow up a 2.8L with 200k in college. And failed.

[Adam]

... it didn't start in the winter (which was the majority of the time I drove it) without using a screwdriver to hold the intake open,

Sounds like the choke was failed, or at least not working correctly. You can replace the choke pull-off on the quadrajets w/o replacing the whole carb. Also might have been a leaking vacuum line. Quadrajet cars of that era had a fair amount of vacuum lines, but not nearly as many as late-70's/early-80's stuff.

... The one I had had IROC wheels on it which didn't fit right and were hitting the suspension,

Yeah, the G-body platform was not designed to handle the 16x8 IROC wheels w/o fender "modifications". The 15x7 Z-28 wheels fit fine, but didn't look as cool.

..The main reason for selling was the rust/rot that was beyond my finances to repair.

Yeah, New England uses too much salt. And the automakers haven't figured out how to deal with that yet. I have lost 4 cars to rust-related issues, two GMs and two Toyotas.

[Adam]

Tell him about the time you tried to blow up a 2.8L with 200k in college. And failed.

Oh yeah. That.

So one fine spring day, we decided to ruin a car. More specifically, the guy who owned it was graduating and no one wanted a rusty 200K+ Corsica or Celebrity or whatever. So we spent better part of an afternoon trying to blow it up via mechanical damage. Full-throttle roll-backs. Red-line neutral drops. Many minutes at WOT. Nothing. Just lots of tire smoke.

We got bored and went drinking (I assume). He drove the car for a few more days before finally scrapping it.

[kevm14]

From the Rockauto newsletter;

Theron's 1983 Chevrolet Celebrity

8615car.jpg

Our Dodge Durango needed to have the engine rebuilt. Our family of five needed a car to drive while I took the time to rebuild the engine. Grandmother to the rescue! She graciously gave us her car.

My grandmother had not driven the car in six years because she couldn't see very well. I was a little skeptical at first of a 1983 Celebrity CL 2.8 V6 automatic that had not been well maintained in the 28 years she had owned it. But, it was always garage kept, she did change the oil every year and only had 60k on the odometer. A new battery and a few shots of ether, and Dolly (every car needs a name!) fired right up. I was hooked because the car was simple enough to work on, and it really made my grandmother smile to see my dad and I awake it from its long slumber.

A friend told me about RockAuto. I found the prices unbelievably lower compared to the chain stores. I replaced all the shocks, rubber, fluids and a few carburetor parts that I thought would be impossible to find. I added rear seat over-the-shoulder restraints to make it safer for the children. In the three months we drove the Celebrity as our primary family vehicle, we were blessed with a car that gave us no trouble whatsoever.

It is a blast to drive such a small nimble car that is very inexpensive and easily serviceable. Totally different experience from anything else made this century. And, the carburetor system, while outdated and a little quirky, still gets us 25mpg. The Durango sits outside the garage now, because this little champ deserves it.

Thank you RockAuto for saving my family hundreds of dollars, which brought joy in restoring this new classic!

Sincerely,
Theron in Kentucky

P.S. The Celebrity cleaned up well enough to be entered in car shows! And, I also used RockAuto to obtain all the parts needed for the Durango engine rebuild.

[bill25]

Well, I never said that the 2.8 wasn't more reliable than anything made by Dodge...