Repair-It

Camaro 1LE V6 was 1.68 seconds faster than the Charger Hellcat around this course. Lol

That is hilarious.

billgiacheri wrote:

Camaro 1LE V6 was 1.68 seconds faster than the Charger Hellcat around this course. Lol

That is hilarious.

Even more hilarious: The 2016 Camaro RS with the 2.0L turbo was 1.12 seconds faster than the Charger Hellcat around this course.

That Hellcat seems like it was really poorly sorted, because the 2015 Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack actually was 1.11 seconds faster than the Charger Hellcat around the same course...

Although I must admit, I never did imagine the day coming where an M-version BMW would get beaten in a *Best Driver's Car* competition by a V6 Camaro LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bill, is that you?

It wasn't me, but they aren't wrong. LOLOLOL

So Bill brought in the magazine with this article, which is old news.

To rehash:

Meanwhile in the M/T Leftovers article, the V6 1LE posted a lap time 0.82 seconds faster than the Focus RS. And the RS was on Sport Cup 2s of course. The chassis hardware of the V6 1LE is basically just a regular Camaro SS but with the V6

Better re-read the thread, too. The Focus RS is barely faster than the STI, and slower than a lot of stuff like the Camaro V6 1LE and even Chevy SS on the track. It is on Sport Cup 2s and still only pulled 0.01G more than the Camaro, worse braking, worse figure 8 and, again, worse lap time. It somehow managed all this while being lighter than the Camaro. With an unbearably harsh ride. Oh, and it's more expensive. Turns out GM lets you add 1LE to the base 1LS Camaro, which puts its MSRP at $32,895 vs the Focus RS base price of $36,995. That's $4,100.

You aren't getting a better performance car with the RS - you're getting AWD and rear doors (and a cramped rear seat regardless). I'm just not that impressed.

To me the mission of a car like the RS is to be an underdog and take down V8 sports cars. It can't even take down a V6 (despite more power, less weight, better tires, and AWD - this sounds like the F150 argument), and is still more expensive. That tells me the formula is antiquated and no longer relevant from a performance standpoint.

I finally looked up the tires. The Sport Cup 2s are treadwear 180. The standard Super Sports on the RS are treadwear 300 (as are all Super Sport treadwear ratings).

The tires on the 1LE are Goodyear Eagle Asymmetric 3, which are.....treadwear 300. So a Michelin PSS competitor. Which means, as I have been saying, the RS was on one performance class of tire higher and all those results happened.

The point is that if the Camaro V6 is so good, and the RS is basically the same price and performance, it can't be that bad. It is not a V8 killer, but it is probably really fun, and pretty practical since you can put different tires on it in the winter and have a very capable daily driver.

Everyone's different but I can't see putting up with a compact/economy car (the back seat is even small for the class I think they said), horrible ride, and performance merely equivalent but slightly worse (despite EVERY on-paper advantage) than a V6 Camaro. That's not what this class used to be. The excitement is gone imo. The grown up Golf R seems more relevant. Or, actually, the Civic Type R because it won't actually have competitors if what Bob is saying is true.

I am not saying to buy a V6 Camaro instead of an RS. I am just saying, as I thought I had been all along, that I can find better ways to spend $37-$40k on a car as a car enthusiast, and get (much) better performance. Actually I can spend less. And you'll spend more on an RS I believe. The Focus ST is the real, actual, relevant value.

The back seat is small. I have the 3 which shares/shared the same platform. It is small.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of in-betweens. You can get a 2 door full on sports car with basically no back seat, or something like this.

The full sized sedan is all but dead except the Charger now, and there aren't many mid sized performance cars. Maybe if the AWD Fusion Sport was actually fast... But Chevy/GM has nothing in this price point for an enthusiast, and really the only other thing I can think of for mid sized would be an Accord V6... Yay...

So I guess for new (which I agree doesn't matter since neither of us would buy new) cars, what even fits your criteria of way better than this that isn't a Camaro (Basically 2 door non-existent back seat) type car?

Chevrolet SS all day long. You can get one brand new for the price of an RS. Yes, you have to look at it.

I don't believe in "there can only be one car and it has to get me to work all year, hold my entire family and has to be my enthusiast vehicle." I know that was kind of Bob's criteria though not really as the real enthusiast vehicle is the Elise. And he's looking at vehicles right at the steep part of their depreciation curve. Anyway, that thinking is how people wind up in $55k 1/2 ton trucks and I will never understand that logic, ever. It is simply dumb from a financial standpoint.

And while not everyone has room for a bunch of cars, a Camaro SS and a cheap daily like a Mazda 3 (which you already own) seems like a MUCH better option than just a Focus RS. The Mazda takes daily driver abuse (parking lots, snow/sand stuff) and the Camaro SS provides real, no shit performance. The Focus RS has neither the performance of the Camaro SS, nor is it a carefree daily driver that you can drive without stress.