Mint Mobile

[Adam]

You also don't usually get to take advantage of any international roaming agreements the OEM (is that the correct term?) has.

[kevm14]

Also true. But I don't think most cell phone plans offer any kind of good built-in roaming, except probably for T-mobile which for obvious reasons has plenty of them overseas. And if it wasn't obvious, it is because T-mobile is owned by Deutsche Telekom.

[Bob]

T-Mobile's international roaming is pretty good as long as you don't plan to make actual phone calls. I get severely throttled data free texts in most of the countries I visit for work (Japan, China, Canada, UK, Germany, France).

[Adam]

T-Mobile's international roaming is pretty good as long as you don't plan to make actual phone calls. I get severely throttled data free texts in most of the countries I visit for work (Japan, China, Canada, UK, Germany, France).

Yup. I don't talk on the phone when I am home so that part doesn't impact me.

[kevm14]

So both our phones really are due for replacement. Mine is suffering hardware issues with the battery mostly (but has some other damage such as a screen crack that is mostly a non-issue). Jamie's phone is a Lumia 640 and just gets worse and worse as it had an early Win phone 10 upgrade right before they dropped support, so it's actually a lot worse than WP8.1 was (which my 1520 still runs, and I still like the OS).

Anyway this would be a good time to get phones with all T-Mobile band support, and switch to Mint. I guess it would be ideal to find the most full support for both AT&T and T-Mobile bands just in case we don't like Mint. I do anticipate staying with a GSM carrier (i.e. no Sprint or Verizon), so this shouldn't be that difficult.

For Jamie, I think the plan is pretty simple: some kind of used iPhone. Trying to find the best value price range.

Unlocked GSM iPhone 7 32GB for $245. Though would rather spend less.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iPhone-7 ... 2541519249

But the 4.7" form factor is good. Jamie's Lumia 640 has a 5" screen so staying in that range should be fine.

T-Mobile band compatibility looks like this:
https://www.frequencycheck.com/carrier- ... ted-states

Missing 2 out of 5 LTE bands. Which is actually as good as it seems to get until you move into the iPhone X-series which are prohibitively expensive. And it looks like a 6s is the same as the 7 (at least some variants are).

6s, $165. Same bands. Same screen size.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iPhone-6 ... rk:15:pf:0

So those are probably the iPhone options. I guess battery replacement is fairly easy or cheap even if you have Apple do it. So not too worried about an older one.

iPhone SE, iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone 7, iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone X

Up through today, battery replacement by Apple was $29 which is pretty damn cheap. Tomorrow it will go to $49 except for iPhone X which will be $69. So at $49, that adds significant cost, and unless the battery was known replaced, I wonder if I'd be better to spend that $50 on an iPhone 7 instead.

[kevm14]

So while that seems complicated, it really isn't. Pretty much down to 2 options, and easy to check for T-Mobile band support (which will be missing 2 LTE bands, best case). And I don't know what Mint supports.

Oh.

https://www.frequencycheck.com/carriers ... ted-states

GSM
Name
Interface
1900 (PCS)
GSM
Supported GSM Protocols
Name
Generation
GPRS
2.5G
EDGE
2.5G

UMTS
Name
Interface
B2 (1900 PCS)
UMTS
B4 (1700/2100 AWS 1)
UMTS
Supported UMTS Protocols
Name
Generation
UMTS
3G
HSDPA
3.5G
HSUPA
3.5G
HSPA+
3.5G (4G speed)

LTE
Name
Interface
B2 (1900 PCS)
LTE
B4 (1700/2100 AWS 1)
LTE
B12 (700 ac)
LTE
B66 (1700/2100)
LTE
B71 (600)
LTE
Supported LTE Protocols
Name
Generation
LTE
4G

T-Mobile is:
https://www.frequencycheck.com/carriers ... ted-states

GSM
Name
Interface
1900 (PCS)
GSM
Supported GSM Protocols
Name
Generation
GPRS
2.5G
EDGE
2.5G

UMTS
Name
Interface
B2 (1900 PCS)
UMTS
B4 (1700/2100 AWS 1)
UMTS
Supported UMTS Protocols
Name
Generation
UMTS
3G
HSDPA
3.5G
HSUPA
3.5G
HSPA+
3.5G (4G speed)

LTE
Name
Interface
B2 (1900 PCS)
LTE
B4 (1700/2100 AWS 1)
LTE
B12 (700 ac)
LTE
B66 (1700/2100)
LTE
B71 (600)
LTE
Supported LTE Protocols
Name
Generation
LTE
4G

Exactly the same. Wonder if they actually have that data or just know it is a T-Mobile MVNO so they pull up the T-Mobile bands.

[kevm14]

Anyway enough of that.

For me, it will probably be Android something because after having iOS as a work phone for a few years, I just cannot enjoy using the system. I hate the single button. I hate the no camera button. And you typically have to spend too much to get an acceptable screen size. I prefer using my 3+ year old Lumia 1520 to my work iPhone. So an iPhone is really out for me.

Problem is, Android is the Windows of phones and you can buy everything from absolute garbage, to hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone (and you pay for that, too).

I know that in my price range (really the same as for Jamie's phone, so call it around $200), I can get something decent. I have no expectation to spend under $150 and can go over $200 if the value equation shifts dramatically. And I know I can do a custom ROM so I don't need to worry about the stock software (though I never had to do any of that on my Windows Phones). But the real question is, do I get a newer middle range phone or an older high end phone, at the $200 price point? Hopefully Adam can help. Requirements are:
- 6" or thereabouts, and looking for a decent quality, though I don't need OLED or anything excessive like that. Honestly looking to match or exceed my 1520 which was pretty high end at the time. Looking for decent contrast, color gamut, outdoor visibility, something that is NOT a blue white point (no 7000K whites please). I would HOPE that most 6" class phones are this good but I think I'd be wrong to assume that. Needless to say, the screen matters to me.
- Obviously GSM/T-Mobile band support. Should be no issue. Unlocked is best, though would I be correct that a "T-Mobile" phone would work fine with Mint?
- Probably a 32GB phone and I will happily add a micro-SD card
- No idea how much ram I need...3-4GB? 2 is insufficient and I am sure they have 6 or even more these days. 4 sounds functional.
- Enough CPU to run the latest Android for...3 years or so, without feeling like the phone has become a turd. I don't really use apps that much so the basic phone and browser just needs to be pretty snappy. I would be OK with a situation where the stock OS becomes shit, but a fresh aftermarket ROM buys a few more years of operation. That seems to be a thing. Not really expecting more than 3 years of actual quality usage but more is better, all things equal.
- I do like a good camera, but I can settle for something lower end to get the price down. There is no free lunch in the camera department. I know the latest phones are pretty amazing. I will say camera speed (loading app, focus, taking picture, shot to shot time) is MORE important than actual image quality. On a phone I am looking for convenience not dSLR image quality. I know Apple does very well here, with usually top of class speed, and near top of class image quality. But iPhones are out, remember?
- I did not mention battery life because I am assuming that a 6" class phone is going to have a large battery. Looking for a 2 day battery life to start with (I charge nightly but 2 day buys some buffer for either extended time away from charger, heavier usage, and battery aging).

Blu is a thing. My gut says to avoid Samsung but not sure if that is justified. Motorola? LG? So many options...

[Adam]

Problem is, Android is the Windows of phones and you can buy everything from absolute garbage, to hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone (and you pay for that, too).

I know that in my price range (really the same as for Jamie's phone, so call it around $200), I can get something decent. I have no expectation to spend under $150 and can go over $200 if the value equation shifts dramatically. And I know I can do a custom ROM so I don't need to worry about the stock software (though I never had to do any of that on my Windows Phones). But the real question is, do I get a newer middle range phone or an older high end phone, at the $200 price point? Hopefully Adam can help. Requirements are:
- 6" or thereabouts, and looking for a decent quality, though I don't need OLED or anything excessive like that. Honestly looking to match or exceed my 1520 which was pretty high end at the time. Looking for decent contrast, color gamut, outdoor visibility, something that is NOT a blue white point (no 7000K whites please). I would HOPE that most 6" class phones are this good but I think I'd be wrong to assume that. Needless to say, the screen matters to me.
- Obviously GSM/T-Mobile band support. Should be no issue. Unlocked is best, though would I be correct that a "T-Mobile" phone would work fine with Mint?
- Probably a 32GB phone and I will happily add a micro-SD card
- No idea how much ram I need...3-4GB? 2 is insufficient and I am sure they have 6 or even more these days. 4 sounds functional.
- Enough CPU to run the latest Android for...3 years or so, without feeling like the phone has become a turd. I don't really use apps that much so the basic phone and browser just needs to be pretty snappy. I would be OK with a situation where the stock OS becomes shit, but a fresh aftermarket ROM buys a few more years of operation. That seems to be a thing. Not really expecting more than 3 years of actual quality usage but more is better, all things equal.
- I do like a good camera, but I can settle for something lower end to get the price down. There is no free lunch in the camera department. I know the latest phones are pretty amazing. I will say camera speed (loading app, focus, taking picture, shot to shot time) is MORE important than actual image quality. On a phone I am looking for convenience not dSLR image quality. I know Apple does very well here, with usually top of class speed, and near top of class image quality. But iPhones are out, remember?
- I did not mention battery life because I am assuming that a 6" class phone is going to have a large battery. Looking for a 2 day battery life to start with (I charge nightly but 2 day buys some buffer for either extended time away from charger, heavier usage, and battery aging).

Blu is a thing. My gut says to avoid Samsung but not sure if that is justified. Motorola? LG? So many options...

Various thoughts:
- I've been buying used "flagship-ish" phones for a few years and had mostly good luck so far. If you are buying a used 2 year old phone, you are not going to get another 5 years out of it, but it won't cost $500+ like a new one does. I bought my current 2016 LG V20 for $120 used on eBay. It was a cosmetic 'B' grade rather than 'A' grade so that saved some money. 'A' grades of the same phones are ~$150. The older it is, the cheaper it is. Except for iPhones, they are always expensive, even used. Previously I've had an LG G5 and a Nexus 5 as normal phones. The Nexus 5 I used for several years while the G5 suffered from 'GPS failure' rendering it useless for normal use. So 2/3 isn't bad. Doing extra research of common issues for a used model is worth the time.

- For reference the V20 specs are: https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_v20-8238.php#h918

- You can run nearly every "international" phone on T-Mobile as they support many, many bands. You can even run most unlocked AT&T phones. My Nexus 5 was the international model while my G5 was a Canadian model. My V20 is a US T-Mobile model as the international version of that phone commanded a 2x price increase.

- After Google stopped patching my Nexus 5, I installed Lineage OS onto it. Lineage is a fork of Cyanogenmod after that project died. They used to release nightly builds, but have backed that off to a more sensible cadence. They support Android 7 (14.1) and 8 (15.1) on various phones. and are starting official development of Android 9 (16.0). https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/. Installation does require a USB cable and the ADB (Android Debug Bridge) installed on any computer, but after the original flash, non-major updates are delivered OTA via a selection in the settings screen.

- I've almost exclusively used LG phones. Their Android customization are on the lighter side. Samsung's is not, but some people like that for whatever reason.

- There are many phones with 4GB of RAM, that should be enough for at least the remainder of the Android 8 lifecycle, depending on how many games you play. Checking my phone now, its average memory usage over the past day is 71% of 4GB.

- Most mid-to-high end phones over the last couple years have been moving to 64GB as the standard amount of storage with 128GB as the 'upgraded' model. Many still offer SD expansion as well. After 2+ months of use I am using 23/64GB. Music and pictures go on the SD card for 12/64GB of space. YMMV.

- I still use the Nexus 5 for specific things. It has a Snapdragon 800 feels sluggish doing many things but is still usable for other things. That phone was released in 2013 and is currently running Android 7 (Lineage OS). I'm sure having only 2GB of RAM isn't helping.

- There are many cameras available, some newer phones have more than one lens/sensor for added fanciness. The internet will have many opinions. When reading reviews, you need to remember that they are typically talking about the shipping version of the camera app/firmware, those things to tend to improve over the first 6 months or so of a phone's life.

- Bigger phones have bigger batteries (obviously). Expect >3000mAh batteries on most things over 5.5". There are also many options for cases with batteries in them for maximum life. There are also some models of phone built around having a very large battery, but those tend to be low or mid-range phones in most cases.

* Formatted for readability

[Adam]

One more thing, typical OEM support gives you 1-3 years of patches and 0-1 major Android updates for any given model. The higher end phones are supported better than the lower end phones.

[bill25]

I have a Motorola DROID Turbo 2. I like it. I have needed a new battery though. Otherwise, it has an "indestructible screen" which is why I went with it. I use the otter box, and a screen cover, and have had zero issues. It has 3 Gig RAM, 2560x1440 display, 21 MP and 5 MP cameras. I don't do much with apps, and it is about 3 years old. I doubt it has 3 more years, but maybe 2??? Probably 1.