Repair-It

So values are all pretty much below $10k.
NADA is rough. Under $9k retail!!

Given this I can't see paying more than $10k. Of course this is really just a suggestion. If someone walks up to him and says $10,500 then that's the market value of that car on that day. It's all about convincing him that the car is worth less, and that taking my offer now is better than holding out, and rolling the dice for a better one. And flashing these around is one way to help do that.

Some pros and cons:

Pros:
The couple pictures looked pretty good.
Based on what you said, it sounds like it was taken care of.
It isn't crazy modded
130,000 isn't super high especially for the year
Local, but not from here most of the time. Best case scenario.
You might be the only person looking to buy a car right now.

Cons:
Transmission discussion - maybe
It is a Mercedes...
Price seems on the high side based on those estimates

I'd like to arrange a test drive but I may need to be prepared to move into my "low ball" offer after that. The contingency I received from the boss (yesterday) is I must take the children. Ugh.

bill25 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 5:16 am Some pros and cons:

Pros:
The couple pictures looked pretty good.

Yes, visually the only flaws (over the phone) seem to be a slightly fading roof which I will have to assess in person. And it sounds like some scratching on the bottom of the front bumper, probably standard curb stop idiocy. If not that visible from a standing position, this is relatively immaterial. Major damage and cracks, however, are something different. Again he described like....zero scratches and dents. This is always good.

Based on what you said, it sounds like it was taken care of.

I mean I think so. The Carfax was a little alarming at times but someone seems to have gotten their money's worth from CPO and then I think an extended warranty after that. The car seems to have needed a bunch of stuff, including a new supercharger. A lot of this stuff isn't necessarily bad mind you. And he did some stuff under his tenure that does not show up on Carfax. So continuously maintained, definitely.

It isn't crazy modded

I think just the tune. This is pretty standard with these. Would be nice to know how long it's had the tune and whether it was the engine or engine + trans tune.

130,000 isn't super high especially for the year

Yeah. Though maybe about as high as I'd want for the ~$10k price range. So I guess that checks out.

Local, but not from here most of the time. Best case scenario.

Yes - sun was hard on the paint it seems but you can't have everything. Painting the roof (car is black non-metallic so maybe the easiest color in the world to get right) is not the end of the world down the road if I still have the car and like it. Otherwise I should be starting with a VERY clean car.

You might be the only person looking to buy a car right now.

He's had some tire kickers but not sure how serious any of them were. So technically others are looking. I may be his most serious potential buyer and that's a major advantage when I potentially offer under $10k....

Cons:
Transmission discussion - maybe

Yeah not sure what this is. If the car has had a hard life and 500 drag strip passes, well that's something to consider. It has had 6 owners. Most of them like 1-3 years. Not sure what that means. I will use my calibrated butt dyno and ears to ascertain powertrain health, of course.

It is a Mercedes...

Yup - and you can see that when you look at the history. Reliable my ass. But I think I know what I am getting into.

Price seems on the high side based on those estimates

He's not that far out to lunch on the asking price honestly. But yes the price guides I have are certainly in my favor. He can simply scoff at them so it's all about the art of negotiation.

Timely video on shrewd deal-making:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh7m9X6jojU

This was pretty good. I think I naturally do a lot of this but some items are good to remember, like don't be all over the place. Make the offer, stick to it, assure him there will be no after-sale BS. No more negotiating after you make your offer. Make sure the seller understands that you know the car's flaws and potential issues. Obviously the more perfect the car, the more theoretical this is ("I'm afraid X part will break" but it's working perfectly fine now, etc.).

The seller lamented that some people have seen the car and "picked it apart." Of course I wanted to ask...if the car is perfect how is that possible? But my hope is, they are picking it apart and offering like $6k or something. Picking it apart and offering $9500 may be a totally different scenario for him.

kevm14 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:00 pm It's all about convincing him that the car is worth less, and that taking my offer now is better than holding out, and rolling the dice for a better one.

kevm14 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 9:57 am

bill25 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 5:16 am You might be the only person looking to buy a car right now.

He's had some tire kickers but not sure how serious any of them were. So technically others are looking. I may be his most serious potential buyer and that's a major advantage when I potentially offer under $10k....

kevm14 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 9:57 am But my hope is, they are picking it apart and offering like $6k or something. Picking it apart and offering $9500 may be a totally different scenario for him.

I pretty much called it (see quotes above).

Drove the car today. Also made an offer and agreed to buy it. Did not give him a deposit. I was there for almost 2 hours.

I'll cut to the interesting part first, the offer and negotiation.

I drove it, looked it over, we talked about it, I thumbed through the literal stack of service records that he got when he bought it (he has no records of his own to give me unfortunately, only what he says he did, so I may attempt to get him to list things so I don't lose it forever), and then I scanned it with my scantool. Took me a while to find the plug. Mercedes, of course, hid it under a little door. Cute.

But no codes, no pending codes, all systems were ready EXCEPT for evap and catalyst. He did have an evap purge solenoid done previously (an actual CEL) but it was in like October 2018. Some research on my phone revealed that this seems to be a common issue with the W211 cars (and maybe other Mercedes), specifically with evap and catalyst readiness. What I would like to see is for the car to get run through the drive cycle and ready those systems, without a CEL. Maybe that is possible yet since I didn't actually buy the car. But this could be the reason the car kept failing emissions in the past. Not from a code, but from lack of readiness.

After that I said, oh, one more thing. I need to check the engine mounts. Honestly these are fairly cheap and easy but they are a common issue and why would I forfeit a bargaining chip? I noticed some very slight vibes at idle (but really no other symptoms, no clunking, etc.) so I definitely wanted to check this. So I start it up, rev it a few times, looks good. Put it in reverse, brake torqued it a bit, looked good. Put it in drive, brake torqued it, engine must have jumped up on the driver's side several inches! I did it a few more times to make sure he saw it. He did. So I'm like....dude this needs mounts, clearly.

Watch the first 30 seconds of this, it was just like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtVm18Svt-s

Then I took some pictures of the car and did this kick the dirt thing I do when I'm indecisive and it went like this:
"So I've been looking at comps and there is a black 04, 130k, basically the same thing on Autotrader for $9500. I have KBB and Edmunds which also put the value in that area, maybe a little less. So, I'm thinking that's where I need to be."

He goes "$9500?" I said yeah. He says ".....alright I can do $9500."

But then I'm like "with engine mounts?"

He thinks for a second and says "yes I'll do them."

Mind you he said the mounts are $25 on the low end to $80 on the high end, each (didn't check Rockauto but sounds right). He did mention Lemforder. But he may get the $48 ones that I guess are actually the OEM (EDIT: Corteco which are actually OE - FCP Euro has them for around $130 which is more than the $48/ea he found but maybe elsewhere is cheaper - oh that is with trans mount, OK), just not marked up with the 3 pointed star. I don't think Rockauto carries that particular brand but the prices do align. They are not pricey. And they are fairly easy, maybe a 2 hour job unlike my STS. And apparently his S-class which is AWD. He's had them and hasn't done them. AWD is a bitch I guess.

EDIT: A source for mounts. These prices are certainly affordable but he's doing it so....
https://www.fcpeuro.com/Mercedes~Benz-p ... &b=5&d=&v=

EDIT 2: Corteco mounts on Amazon, both, for $89.
https://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Benz-Co ... 984&sr=8-1

Anyway, I said, let me make a phone call. So I call Bob, and then Jamie (yes in that order, boo, hiss). The conclusion I came to with Bob is that if I want an E55, this is probably a pretty solid example in this price range, in this area, and probably has a lot more going for it, than against. No car is perfect. With Jamie (who didn't know what I was looking at, how much it cost or, frankly, why I wanted it), I played my hand. And that hand was, sell the Roadmaster like this summer. Continue to daily drive my STS until I decide it is not viable or I get completely bored with it. At that time the E55, which hopefully will be totally sorted if it's not already, would move into daily driver status replacing both cars. I think the reduction of cars from 2 to 1 really sold it.

So I went back after being on the phone for almost 20 minutes (he was sitting on his front steps the whole time, waiting for me to have these phone calls across his yard) and as I was walking over he shouts "price just went up." I laughed. Yes he was joking. So I said, let's do it. $9500, you do the mounts. I did say please don't get the cheap ones and he said he would never do that. Hey I trust him I guess. Normally it would have been better to take another $500 or whatever off the car, which is like $400 in profit because they really aren't that hard. But he knew they were easy and would rather do it obviously. Makes sense.

Then I said, so let me swing over to an ATM and get you at least a deposit to hold the car. He said that is not necessary. I'm like....you sure?? He said, look, are you going to buy the car? I said, yes. He said that's good enough for me. So my big fear now is that he keeps the ad up and continues to entertain offers. I'd rather hold the car. So what I may do is politely ask him to take down the FB ad and if he says no I'll say then let me get you a deposit to hold the car - so you can take down the ad. Hopefully this doesn't blow up into a thing. Or I can just roll the dice. We're talking an extra week here.

He did say this kid was here and offered him $8k and was like "well there's this $6k one in Michigan that already has headers and stuff." The guy was like, OK, that's $1000 to get it home right off the bat. So anyway, it's that thing I said before. $9500 was the best, most serious, most realistic offer he had, and he could tell I was legit, so he accepted. This is how negotiating works.

I'll post next on my thoughts on the car now that I explained how the deal went down.

Pics here or below: https://1drv.ms/f/s!An5lt1BKvFKdqa9PtgpkhQw8vJMdwA

So I arrive and get out of my car and was looking at the car for like 30 seconds. He comes out. I look over at my STS and smoke is coming out from underneath. I think all the sitting has made the valve cover gasket (or other oil leaks) get even worse and the long highway drive must have dumped a bunch of oil on the exhaust. I'm sure he thought I was classy as we both watched smoke come out from under it, which I have never, ever seen. Great first impression.

So I'm looking at the car and he's like "see there is where there is some fading on the roof." It honestly was not that noticeable, true to his word though you CAN see it in the roof pics. However, he pointed at the part of the roof in front of the sunroof and said "I wet sanded this and it's basically gone." I'm like....you wet sanded between yesterday and today? He said, yeah, this morning. Ha. I mean you can still see it but I guess that was the worst spot. He also clayed and "buffed the hood." I guess that's good? I hope he didn't burn through all the clear coat. It's a pure black car, so I can deal with this. Maybe I'll attempt a DIY paint correction on specific panels that are problematic, and then ceramic coat it so it lasts a while. Also the headlights could use a polish but this is solidly DIY stuff. And satisfying anyway.

Anyway I walk around the car and he's like "get in." Similar to the STS-V guy, we pull out and he does like a 10-60 on his street. I guess he wanted the car's first impression to be strong. From the passenger seat it didn't feel a whole lot stronger than the STS-V. One of the reasons is the car has tall gearing so the sensation of acceleration is somewhat muted. It's one of those cars. As a result it was hard to gauge the trap speed. To say this car traps about the same as Bob's old Z06 (or faster) is interesting because it felt slower to me. It COULD be that it's lacking some ponies (maybe the tune sucks), or the gearing is so tall, like I said, that it's hard to judge. The speed tells the tale when you look at it. And it certainly has plentiful thrust. But it doesn't feel like it's trying to kill you which I guess I somewhat expected? I mean it's a 4,300 lb car. Even with 500 hp it's not going to feel like it can barely stay on the road.

He drove for another few minutes and then pulls over to let me drive. Not that different from the STS-V dealer guy, funnily enough.

He had the seat all messed up so I tried to fix all that. Steering wheel has a fairly thin and unsatisfying feel. Throttle response was nice. Felt pretty direct, not all filtered and damped like my STS. I think I liked the brake feel better on the STS-V as well but obviously these are plenty strong. The braking distances might even be better on the E55, but I digress.

Hammered it a little but got onto the highway (unlike with the STS-V). Actually we ended up in NH at one point where he quickly instructed me to stop mashing and turn around. Stupid NH. Anyway, this car just has deep wells of torque. It is pretty awesome. It really only needs the 5 gears. Basically you can summon instant acceleration without downshifting if you like (like rolling down the highway in 5th). Or press more and get more, and eventually a downshift and it just goes. I punched it on the highway a few times and it was over 100 in just seconds. It really does want to keep going. I like that.

There was a Corvair on one of the highways and he really mashed on a ramp. I was impressed. I never see Corvairs and here was this guy giving it the beans as I test drive this E55. Fairly memorable experience.

The trans tune felt alright. It does hang onto gears in Sport but for all I know that is part of the factory programming, like on my cars. It also seemed to downshift a little more preemptively when slowing down to be in a better gear to accelerate and not have to just immediately downshift to accelerate. I mean that's what you'd want anyway. It seemed to shift fine. I think it needs a fluid change. Not sure if it needs anything else like that valvebody plate or whatever.

The steering was fairly precise and fluid on center. However as I was driving home I noted that I prefer my STS steering. It's just better. But the E55 is perfectly fine and goes with the car, though I would have preferred the 05-06 which is supposedly a little quicker. I did test it on some ramps and it does have that solid, grippy feel. Perfectly serviceable handling on the Continental DW summer tires. I played with the shock settings from the soft mode (comfort?) to Sport 1, and Sport 2. Honestly I couldn't feel much of a difference and I was expecting it to get rock hard in Sport 2. This may mean that the shocks are tired and I am a little worried this is on original shocks which is kind of insane and certainly adds some cost though I would NOT do it right away as long as they were still functioning.

Stabbed the brakes just a little on a ramp and yeah they are strong. The feel is meh and again the STS-V had better feeling brakes. It will work.

Got back to the house and I played with stuff. I tried the radio. It seemed to be OK. It did in fact have the H/K Logic7 system. Phew. I don't think there was an aux-in in the glovebox which sucks (05+?). So I guess I have to pull the nav (COMAND) out and connect some wires to the back of that, and then I have my aux-in. If that's what I have to do, I can do it. Just annoying, and hard to believe one of the SIX owners never did this. I tried as many features as I could. Sunroof, windows, power seat, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel. Everything worked. Power rear sunshade worked, too.

I mean the interior is in excellent overall condition. There IS some funny wear on the A pillars (alcantara?) and a little on the headliner. Not sure what that's about. It's not noticeable and it almost looks like it got stained by accident (or by a greasy hand) and then someone tried to clean it. The seats and door panels are more important to me and they were pretty damn good. I mean the driver's seat looked very good. This is key.

I tried to sit behind and it was too tight. I adjusted the seat more like how I would have it and it was still tight but I could sit back there. Honestly not really better than my STS - I was hoping for more "executive-grade" legroom but oh well. It has manual rear seat retractable shades. And rear dual zone auto climate which I actually hadn't seen in this era outside of a Phaeton so that's pretty premium.

Opened the trunk. There was a for sale sign in there....ha. Seemed clean and fine. Power trunk worked. This is great. Really, everything did seem to work. I tried the air suspension lift feature (to clear driveways or whatever) and that seemed to work.

There is a scuff on the front lip that was touched up. I can live with it. I have a pic of it.

Again I think the deal with this car is what I said before - overall for the price, this is probably a pretty good example and has a lot going for it, more than going against it. So that's why I went for it. I know it's a 16 year old German car with 130k but this is still a lot of car for $9,500.

Back at the house after we made the deal we had lots of other interesting discussion. I enjoyed talking with him even though he seemed to have some kind of family/friend gathering. He has a 2020 GMC SIerra HD Denali with the Duramax and 10 speed Allison, like a $75k truck. It tows his 40 foot camper. Man. I was like that thing is awesome, L5P right? He's like you have no idea. I said "is that the Allison 10 speed?" He nods. I'm like "I have some idea." Haha. I guess he had a string of Duramax trucks since 2001 and has had good service from all of them. He recalls his 07 got like 238k from the original PADS and ROTORS. That million mile Duramax guy I posted a while back had exactly the same result by the way, so I guess this is a thing. And that's while towing. I guess having the trailer brakes set up properly is key...

He also had like an 09 S-class. He also has a 1939 Nash that needs restoration but may go into his garage since this E55 was taking it up since 2014 (good for me). I picked his brain a little. He said he had maybe 5 BMWs previously and named a few. He said "I'm all good." It seems like they were just maintenance nightmares, constantly costing bucks to keep operational. In his opinion the Mercedes is a completely different (and superior) car. So there's that.

Anyway that truck was like $75k so I'm like "did you shop Ford or Ram at all?" He said, nope, doesn't do Fords. I said me neither. I'm guessing a GM guy who thumbs his nose at Ford isn't even going to give Ram the time of day. Just a hunch.

Previous to his latest camper, he had a Prevost RV which is pretty swank. He said it had an 8V-92 turbo....oh REALLY? A Detroit Diesel? I'm game. I'm like "was that a DDEC motor?" DDEC was the electronic engine controls Detroit came out with to attempt emissions compliance on their 2 stroke diesel. Didn't really work. But I guessed that the bus was a 91 as a result. 94. I said, 6 speed Allison? Yup. I said, I bet that had a lot of power. He goes "500 hp, it was great." So that was a fun aside. This was all before I made the offer mind you. The truck discussion was after though....doesn't matter I guess.

I did ask to use the bathroom before leaving and did. As I was walking out of the bathroom, someone asked "so did you sell the car?" He was quiet and I walked in and was like "yep, he did, still here." I guess he paid $14k and that was a good enough deal back in 2014 to fly down to GA and drive back. So those were some expensive miles for him. He probably only put about 15k on it in 6 years. And did still put some money into it for repairs in that time. In fact let me list from memory for now:
- Brakes
- Aux battery (maybe main battery too?)
- Evap purge solenoid
- Tires
- Exhaust manifolds
- Spark plugs (all 16)
- SBC pump (at his cost though these are now under warranty for 25 years - I guess I would have rather had some fresher shocks than this)

Oh it takes a special Mobil 1 10W-40. I found plenty of receipts for M1 0W-40. He says he uses Amsoil 10W-40. I mean that's impressive. But I don't know what I'd use. I guess my GC 0W-30 is inadequate....off on both viscosity numbers. I'm sure there are 8 million threads discussing M113K oil so I'll figure something out; there may be a 5W-40 that is good.

Here is what Amsoil says:

Above -13 F......5W-30, 5W-40, 5W-50
Above -4 F......10W-30, 10W-40, 10W-50, 10W-60
Above 5 F......15W-30, 15W-40, 15W-50
Above 23 F......20W-40, 20W-50
All TEMPS......0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40

Thing holds 9 quarts I think. And I guess it has a split sump (like an 80s Ford 302 perhaps). So two drain plugs. Hope it doesn't take those stupid cartridge filters. We'll see.

EDIT: It does. Someone bought an aftermarket wheel/tire warranty for this car at one point. Makes me think it was rolling on some ridiculous wheels at one point in its life. That doesn't make me feel super awesome but it has stock wheels now so whatever. The wheels were in decent, not perfect, condition. Probably better than all of the wheels in my fleet except for maybe the SRX, and even then....so that's all good, too. He did say he adds air like only once a year. This is....a change of pace for me (sigh).

Yeah, you know, I think I did fairly well here. Just need to actually close the deal!

Drive cycle info.

Also there is this:
https://www.smogtips.com/smog-question/ ... rive-Cycle

The order doesn't match but certainly the EVAP and catalyst drive cycles seem to be the same.

For evap, it's basically idle the car for 20 minutes with a fuel level between 3/4 and 1/4. It does say do it again. That's crazy. Not sure if I am going to ask him to do this, but maybe.

For catalyst, it says 3 minutes of driving between 48-54 mph. Maybe stop and idle it for another 3 minutes. If this can be done on its own, then that's fairly easy as long as he has like 3 miles of road with no lights nearby. But if it has to be done in an order and after some other tests then I dunno. Maybe worth a try.

Either that or I'll have to do this to get ONE of those ready or else I won't pass RI emissions. They don't both have to be ready, fortunately.

From another post:

3. (a) For 2001 and newer vehicles, more than one readiness monitor in a vehicle's on-board computer is not set as ready; or

(b) For 1996-2000 vehicles, more than two readiness monitors in a vehicle's on-board computer are not set as ready.

So I just need to make one ready. Without setting a CEL. Challenge accepted though it would be better honestly if I could get him to do it. Because if it sets a CEL, I have a feeling he would actually fix it unless it just blows his budget - he didn't seem to want to sell a broken car. I mean he wet sanded a section of the roof for me, and polished (and clayed?) the hood. He wants it to be right, or right within reason for age/mileage.

Wow, sounds like you're buying a mercedes?! Not something I would have predicted 6 months ago... But then again, nothing is as I would have predicted it then..

Cant wait to put on some.masks and go for a ride!!

Update: he texted me this morning that he ordered the more expensive Lemforder mount kit which includes the transmission mount. I guess he's throwing that in, too? Pretty awesome. Said the kit was $130 which is obviously pretty affordable.

Fast_Ed wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:48 am Wow, sounds like you're buying a mercedes?! Not something I would have predicted 6 months ago... But then again, nothing is as I would have predicted it then..

Cant wait to put on some.masks and go for a ride!!

Well this car checks some old fashioned boxes. Large displacement torque monster V8 (SOHC 3 valve, no variable anything, torque from idle to redline - sounds more like a good LS right?), few ratios in the trans with relatively slow shifts, big heavy sled (not to mention my options fetish). I always liked that stuff and this is a compelling package that is supposed to be DIY maintainable with a robust online community (yes some parts are pricey but many are not), has a reliable/durable powertrain unlike most high-po German stuff, and also happens to be a bit cheaper (and faster) than the closest GM equivalent (the STS-V). Usually the GM car is cheaper but that's not the case here. So I just applied the same formula as always and the E55 came out the other end. I am capable of objectivity despite what some may think.