Generator solutions

Power out? How about an inverter connected to your car?
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote:Need to replace the 240V outlet just to avoid problems, and make an adapter from this old Nema 6-15r style to something new, and get a generator cable.
So it has a Nema 6-15r, but if I wanted to keep that style I'd get the Nema 6-20r since the output is technically 16.6A. The 6-20r looks like this:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/content ... g5461.html

But then I'd still have to adapt to my L14-20 cable.

So I could just buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Mounting- ... ma+L14-20r

And cut a hole and actually install it in the generator natively.
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

I picked up the cord after work. This is what I got by the way:
http://www.grainger.com/product/GENTRAN ... rigin=prod

This is an insane price. This is easily a $100 cord and this particular one was previously $150 from Grainger. It's actually cheaper than the 25 footer.
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Here is an adapter from the existing Nema 6-15 outlet that would connect to the new generator cord that I just bought.

http://www.amazon.com/NEMA-6-15P-L14-20 ... ma+L14-20r

You can see that for $44 (and it is 14 ga which is pretty lame), I would be incentivized to do something else, like install a native Nema L14-20r receptacle on the generator. I could try to build the adapter but that will still be expensive.
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

There is one other consideration for generator sizing and load management. Each set of windings is rated at a certain current. In my case that's 16.6A per phase. It is possible, then, to overload one set of windings while not getting 100% rated total power from the generator. I have about 2000VA per phase (maybe slightly more) of load capacity. Each 120V plug comes from a different phase on the generator. For the 240V outlet, each hot wire comes from a different phase, and the same issue applies.

The point is that I need to take a look at my base loads to see if they are fairly evenly balanced within my breaker box.

Oversizing the generator does help mitigate this issue.

A scientific way to judge this in service is to get another Kill-a-watt and put one on each 120V outlet, and make some kind of adapter to feed that into my L14-20 cord. Then I could measure power, wattage, amps, etc, on each phase and make sure the loads are not too unbalanced. I'm probably not going to do this.
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Shots of the cord. Seems pretty nice to me.
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This cord is rated for 20A, which is 4800VA at 240V.

An online calculator puts the voltage drop at a little over 3V @ 20A. No issues there.
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kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Finally ordered this: http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Mounting- ... receptacle

Nema L14-20 receptacle.

AJ came over on Saturday to drop off a hole saw/arbor and gave me a few additional options to consider for getting the outlet on the generator. There are 3 main options, and all involve the outlet, which is why I ordered it:

1. Drill a 1-9/16" hole in the front panel and two small mounting holes. Install the outlet right on the front panel next to the old Nema 6-15 240V outlets.
Pros: Most "native" installation
Cons: Still tracking down a 1-9/16" hole saw but 1-1/2" and some grinding/filing should work as well. Also defaces the front panel which oddly I actually care about.

The next two are derivations of the overall electrical box concept.
2. Install outlet in a weatherproof box and mount that directly on the face of the front panel.
Pros: No need for a 1-9/16" hole saw. Fewer holes in the front panel overall (could probably get away with putting it back to stock)
Cons: Looks tacked on (because it is literally tacked on), protrudes from the overall footprint of the unit

3. Install outlet in a weatherproof box and remotely mount that somewhere on the generator, but not directly on the front panel.
Pros: No drilling in the front of the panel (holes would be basically hidden on the bottom, going back to stock easiest of all options)
Cons: Even more tacked on? More work.

For all of the options, I think extending the 240V wires is going to be part of the job which I was hoping to avoid. I need to pull the panel apart again and see just how much wire there is, even if I had to cut the little wire ties that are bundling everything together.

I also need to tackle the house side, starting with ordering the correct Nema L14-20 weatherproof box that I will mount on my house.

Alternate plan: convert my old dryer plug adapter into something that will take input from each of the two 120V outlets and backfeed 240V, instead of backfeeding 120V as I have done before. That will require buying another 12ga extension cord which is probably the cost of the box that goes on the house. I should just move toward doing this right.

Really lame alternate plan: Just run 120V into my dryer plug adapter which would give me ~2000W instead of the 1500W that I usually get from my inverter (and Caprice). It would be far quicker/easier to setup, use less gas, but be noisier. It also, critically, wouldn't power the well pump, which is really the only reason I even need 240V in the first place.
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Darnit.
Good morning Kevin,

Thank you for contacting Powermate customer support regarding your generator.

Unfortunately due to the age of your unit we are unable to supply documentation as requested. The Powermate Company went out of business in the mid 2000’s which made any documentation on the older units no longer available. Although the product line has been carried on by other companies, this documentation is not retrievable or reconstructable.

With regards,

Tim Bales
Generac Customer Support
Powermate Team

Phone: 1-800-445-1805
Fax: 262-544-4854
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Took a closer look at that degraded rubber isolator. It's sagging bad enough that there is metal to metal contact, which is no good. I ordered 2 of these, which sure look like a match:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250694940649?ru ... 26_rdc%3D1
kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

My outlet came in. It fits a standard single gang box. The locking action feels good.
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kevm14
Posts: 16014
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Generator solutions

Post by kevm14 »

Installed the new mounts. I had to shim them with two washers to get it up a little higher. Hopefully these last a while.
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You can see the clearance below the engine. Should be enough.
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