Garden tractor acquisition

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kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

kevm14 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:15 am Some Husqvarna weights:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0053 ... _qh_dp_hza

Very handy Q&A:
center to center bolts is 4 3/4 inches, overall outside width 11 inches
Right, I need to go measure my holes. I don't REALLY want to drill holes in my wheels if I don't need to.

Also, the thing with wheel weights is, there is no downside to using them. In fact I'd leave them on there. This may be a modest-sounding 62 lbs but since they are wheel weights, there is zero additional load on the axle/bearings. It also does not change the front end weight - just adds traction weight.

If the spacing fits I may try these. It's that or I find something and adapt it. Seems like I could stack up a bunch of metal lifting weights, drill holes in the right places, and just bolt those on, too. I just don't have anything like that kicking around.
Good news. My holes are 4-3/4" spacing. Thankfully something is standard here.

I'm half tempted just to get some weights now because it seems like there is no reason not to other than trying to be cheap and see if I don't need them....
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kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I ordered them. Consensus from reading Amazon reviews is that they reduce/eliminate slippage. Obviously it is going to help, so I'll probably put them on and never remove them.

Oddly, some folks complained that they had to drill holes. Other folks complained that it covers their valve stem. Why do you think mine are on the inside??
kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I got my 78" drive belt from Tractor Supply (another $18). It was a tight fit but I got it on. As I've said before, Simplicity likes to rotate belts by 90° during their rotation. So the first time I got it on the hydro pulley, it was the wrong way so I had to switch it.

I have good news and bad news. The good news is, the engagement point for the foot pedal seems perfect now. Pretty much straight up and down, leaving as much boot/toe room as possible with this design. It's a little tighter than my Simplicity now though that has an 80" belt. Very strange because these are the same machine. But yeah, the belt stays put and that's the other reason I did this.

Now the bad news is the new belt is so tight that the hydro doesn't fully disengage even with the pedal pushed all the way down. This doesn't really cause too much of an issue as it doesn't have enough traction to really drive the machine (it just stops if you try). If anything, the only real issue is that it will be another drag on the starter which isn't going to be helpful in very cold temps. Best case it will just slightly stretch during use and may do so just enough to loosen while the pedal is all the way down. If it stretched like 1/4" that would probably be perfect. Maybe I should store it with the pedal engaged to put some pressure on the belt, actually. But as far as I know, I'm done fooling with this.
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Then I got the Terra-Grips on. They have 11 rubber elements which seems to be the correct number to get the spacing right around a 20" tall tire. However, I choked up on the inner and outer links and it still seems a little loose. Kind of the opposite problem now. If it had the same number of chain links but just a little smaller, that would probably be perfect. I guess all tires aren't the same and this is more of a universal thing. I did inflate the rear tires to like 15psi and that didn't help that much either. As long as they do what they are supposed to do I guess it doesn't matter but I can easily pull a rubber grip up off the tire with very little effort. The directions make it seem like it should be tight. I can't make it any tighter.

The next size down would be too small, similar to how the chains fit. There would be a large section with no rubber element with the next size down according to the spec sheet I get that shows all the models they offer.

I did have to shave off a protruding bolt that was catching the grips as they went around on the right side. If they were tight like the pictures show, it wouldn't have caught.
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See what I mean? I managed to hook the outer latch on the actual link that goes to a rubber element which is one link even tighter than the tightest "setting."
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Also got my wheel weights. They look good. Haven't tried to fit up yet but I am optimistic. The spacing looks about right. However, despite being advertised with hardware (and even saying so on the box label), the hardware was missing. Probably just fell out of the box. They shipped these in a single box and it had a big hole that basically became a grab handle. Pretty lame. So I guess I have to call Husqvarna and see if I can get them to send me bolts/nuts. If not I'll have to get my own...
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kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I dry fit a weight to a wheel. It feels like a PERFECT fit. It sits perfectly flush with the rim and just feels like it was made to go on there. So presuming the bolt hole spacing is right, these are going to be great. I may just go buy bolts, washers and nuts rather than fight with Husqvarna/Amazon...
kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Looks like a 3/8" by 6" bolt should work. I used a drill bit to get the diameter, and some careful tape measuring to get the length.
kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Ha. Chatted with Amazon support. They are sending me 25% back. $23.38. Hopefully the hardware is less than that. I can also still pursue with Husqvarna (they sent me a link) but I'll just buy my own at this point.
kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

Tractor Supply is great. Hardware by the pound.
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4x the following:
3/8-16 x 6" bolts
3/8-16 nuts
Flat washers
Lock washers

She threw it all on a scale because it is all the same grade (5). Total? A shockingly low $2.56 and that's with tax.

Hope the length works. I tried measuring and about 6" is what I came up with.
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kevm14
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Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

This keeps getting better. It was only a little tricky to hold the weight on the wheel while trying to push a bolt through the hole. Some folks say it is easier to push the bolt from the back because the holes in the weight are tapered and that would help guide it. But the nut should go on the inside I guess for two main reasons: 1) nothing will be sticking out, as the bolt head is flush with the weight and 2) the threads may be better protected on the inside of the wheel.

When installing it is a good idea to center up the weight with the holes and tighten in stages. Keep centering (lifting/twisting) because it will keep finding its home. You don't want to tighten off center because even though it will obviously bolt on fine, it may shake loose from bumping around (the ride with these Terra-Grips is bumpier than I expected). But if it is torqued when aligned, it should stay tight. The weights are plastic so I did not go crazy with it. If I have an issue I'll deal with it. Maybe add a lock washer on the inside (just have a flat now). Or I could get nyloc nuts, which probably do a hell of a lot more than split ring lock washers.

Anyway, it is hard to think of a more satisfying little project than this, at least recently, between the ease of fitment and correct guess on hardware. With the Amazon refund, this whole thing only cost me $72.71 all in.

I guess I have the best chance I can get at this point. Wish it had a locking diff...
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kevm14
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I did the best I could to account for costs. I do not think adding these up is legit (I go into an analysis at the bottom) but to support that claim I broke things down into these categories:
- Initial purchase
- Repair (non-recurring costs to get the machine to a workable, reliable state - some of this stuff is going to be common, other stuff is unique to this specific machine and its individual history)
- Tune-up items (potentially recurring costs, some annually, some less often but at a minimum the belts do wear out)
- Modifications/accessory items (these items improve the function of the machine and should be non-recurring as well)
- Tools (tools I purchased but that will live in my toolbox after use)

The categories break down like this:
Initial purchase: $150
Repair: $211.67 (less than half was truly mandatory; I clearly did more than the bare minimum)
Tune-up: $81
Mod/accessories: $185
Tools: $54

Grand total? $681 including machine purchase. Looking at the list, the bare minimum I could have spent to get it up and running is $274 (including machine purchase). I mean the wheel weights and Terra-Grips alone are $180.

Code: Select all

Deutz-Allis 613H w/ 42" thrower, 42" deck and parts machine	$150 	Purchase
Carb kit	$16.01 	Repair
Coil	$43.97 	Repair
Gas cap	$20.85 	Repair
Plugs	$5 	Tuneup
Air filter	$23 	Tuneup
Fuel filter	$8.50 	Tuneup
Fuel shutoff	$10 	Repair
Lift lever grip	$11.87 	Repair
80" drive belt	$18 	Repair
79" drive belt	$18 	Repair
78" drive belt	$18 	Tuneup
Spare 120" deck/blower belt	$26 	Tuneup
1/4-20 threaded rod and nuts for battery hold down	$5 	Repair
Ring terminals for battery	$5 	Repair
Briggs flywheel puller and keys	$18 	Tool
3/4" drive sockets and adapter	$36 	Tool
Terra-Grip chains	$107 	Mod/accessory
Husqvarna wheel weights	$72.71 	Mod/accessory
Belt guide	$18 	Repair
Thrower shoe/skid	$26.50 	Repair
PTO rod set screw	$10.47 	Repair
Rubber flap hardware for blower	$5 	Mod/accessory
Tire slime	$8 	Repair
Looking at it another way, if I could have found a machine with 42" blower with wheel weights for under $400 that needed less work than this one, that would have been the better deal. Odds of that are about zero, because the 42" blower by itself is worth like $300. Or under $325 if I still had to buy my own wheel weights. That's even more unlikely.

Rationale:
A used machine in better condition than what I bought may not require the following items:
- Coil
- Gas cap
- Lift lever grip
- 80" drive belt
- 79" drive belt
- 78" drive belt
- Spare 120" deck/blower belt
- 1/4-20 threaded rod and nuts for battery hold down
- Ring terminals for battery
- Briggs flywheel puller and keys
- 3/4" drive sockets and adapter
- Belt guide
- PTO rod set screw

Which means I spent $250 on extra stuff that may not have been required on a machine in better condition. $250 + $150 = $400.

As for stuff I would have had to purchase anyway for any theoretical used machine purchase (assume it comes with weights because I've certainly seen that, but never saw the Terra-Grips):

Code: Select all

Carb kit	$16.01 
Plugs	$5 
Air filter	$23 
Fuel filter	$8.50 
Fuel shutoff	$10 
Terra-Grip chains	$107 
Thrower shoe/skid	$26.50 
Rubber flap hardware for blower	$5 
Tire slime	$8 
$209.01. If it doesn't have weights add another $72.71 = $281.72 on top of a non-existent <$400 machine. That comes to $681. I guess the conclusion is, this is still the least I could have spent given my options unless there was some 100% turn key snow machine for under $681 that didn't even need a single tune-up item, came with Terra-Grips, etc. Not happening either, for basically anything over 1 year old.

The cheapest thing I could have done was just bolt the thrower and hitch frame onto my Simplicity. In addition to the $150 for what I bought, I would have had to add:

Code: Select all

Lift lever grip	$11.87 
Spare 120" deck/blower belt	$26 
Terra-Grip chains	$107 
Husqvarna wheel weights	$72.71 
Thrower shoe/skid	$26.50 
Rubber flap hardware for blower	$5 
Or $249. In other words, I would have been at $400 just to put the thrower on my Simplicity. For an additional $281 (which would have been more expensive without the parts machine), I basically enabled what should be a reliable 2nd machine which I think we all can agree is probably the better idea. Now, if I could have found a "turn-key" machine of this architecture that needed absolutely nothing, not even a single tune-up item, for under $281 (no snow stuff, just the tractor), then I would have been better off to literally throw away the Deutz (or hold onto it for parts but that's it), as that would have been the better deal. That is not possible because that's not what the market provides in these price ranges.

I dunno, please check my math...
kevm14
Posts: 15529
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: Garden tractor acquisition

Post by kevm14 »

I did not include fluids (multiple engine oil changes, or the small amount of SAE30 I used in the axle)…

I also missed a couple feet of fuel line. That's a few bucks anyway.
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