Kia Rondo Replacements

[Bob]

Even if the SS's performance becomes outdated, I still think it's going to be the last RWD NA V8 sedan from GM, which is something.

[bill25]

Even if the SS's performance becomes outdated, I still think it's going to be the last RWD NA V8 sedan from GM, which is something.

That is a sad thought... I guess people were thinking this around the end of the G/B bodies and we were lucky to have a couple niche cars come through since then, although not full sized sedans. No production levels as seen before though. I am basically thinking the CTS-V, GTO, G8, SS. GTO is a stretch as it is more of a F-body replacement.

[Bob]

Solid deal on a Vsport premium in New Mexico: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

2014 Premium, White Diamond Tricoat over Kona leather (I really like this combination) with 53k miles for $25,995.

[Bob]

Very clean Vsport Premium. It has a little bit of CPO warranty left, which would make me feel better about it: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

I also like this color combination.

[kevm14]

Let's do some V2 research.

First I should point out that the V2 is easy to overlook but it was a hell of a second act to the original V. Before I do that, here is the cheapest one on AutoTrader:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

09, automatic, black, 70k miles. Asking $23k. That is cheap. At a dealer in KY with good ratings, too.

Starting with performance.
Car and Driver tested an 09 M6 to 12.6 @ 116. Motor Trend did 12.4 @ 117.1 and with an automatic did 12.3 @ 117.5. This is Gen 6 Camaro SS performance in a great handling sedan package (or coupe or wagon). Which GM made in 09, to put things in perspective - and all for a starting MSRP of only $58,500.
For perspective on the performance other than a Camaro, a same-year M5 ran 12.5 @ 114.9 and an E63 Mercedes ran 12.7 @ 113.
Braking was another high point. 60-0 was 105-109 feet. 100-0 was 304-309 feet. For comparison, the M5 did 60-0 in 114 and the E63 in 113. 100-0 was 326 for the M5 and 329 for the E63.
They were on the heavier side, nearly 4,300 lbs (4,281 for the A6 and 4,292 for the M6). But here is a list of cars that were slower on the C&D Lightning Lap than an 09 V2 sedan:

94
LL3
Porsche Boxster S (2013)
3:04.2
#7 (2013)
95
LL3
Cadillac CTS-V coupe (2011)
3:04.2
#5 (2011)
96
Transporter
BMW Alpina B7 xDrive (2017)
3:04.3
#11 (2017)
97
LL3
Audi RS5 (2013)
3:04.3
#7 (2013)
98
LL3
Lotus Exige S (2007)
3:04.5
#2 (2008)
99
LL3
Audi R8 (2007)
3:04.6
#2 (2008)
100
LL3
BMW M6 (2013)
3:04.7
#7 (2013)
101
LL3
Lexus LC500 (2018)
3:04.8
#11 (2017)
102
LL2
Audi TT RS (2012)
3:04.8
#6 (2012)
103
LL3
Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG (2012)
3:04.9
#6 (2012)
104
LL3
Lotus Exige S 260 Sport (2009)
3:05.0
#4 (2010)
105
LL2
Ford Mustang GT (2015)
3:05.2
#9 (2015)
106
LL3
BMW M5 (2013)
3:05.2
#7 (2013)
107
LL3
Lotus Evora S (2012)
3:05.3
#6 (2012)
108
LL2
Lexus IS F (2011)
3:05.4
#5 (2011)
109
LL2
BMW M3 coupe (2009)
3:05.4
#4 (2010)
110
LL2
BMW M3 coupe (2008)
3:05.6
#3 (2009)
111
LL3
Lexus RC F (2015)
3:05.8
#9 (2015)
112
LL3
Porsche 911 Carrera S (2009)
3:05.8
#4 (2010)
113
LL3
Porsche Cayman S (2009)
3:05.8
#4 (2010)
114
LL4
Porsche 911 Turbo (2007)
3:05.8
#2 (2008)
115
LL3
Lexus GS F (2016)
3:05.9
#10 (2016)
116
LL2
Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG (2014)
3:05.9
#8 (2014)
117
LL2
Ford Shelby GT500 (2007)
3:05.9
#2 (2008)
118
LL3
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG coupe (2012)
3:06.3
#6 (2012)
119
Race Car
Mazda MX-5 Miata Cup Car (2016)
3:06.4
#10 (2016)
120
LL3
Jaguar XKR (2010)
3:06.4
#4 (2010)
121
LL2
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG (2008)
3:06.5
#3 (2009)
122
LL2
BMW 1-series M (2011)
3:06.6
#6 (2012)
123
LL3
Jaguar XFR-S (2014)
3:06.7
#8 (2014)
124
LL2
Cadillac CTS Vsport (2014)
3:06.8
#8 (2014)
125
LL3
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (2011)
3:06.9
#5 (2011)
126
LL2
BMW M235i (2014)
3:07.2
#8 (2014)
127
LL2
Ford Shelby GT500 (2010)
3:07.4
#4 (2010)
128
Transporter
BMW M760i xDrive (2017)
3:07.6
#11 (2017)
129
LL2
Audi TTS (2016)
3:07.7
#10 (2016)
130
LL2
BMW M240i (2017)
3:08.0
#11 (2017)
131
LL3
Lotus Evora (2011)
3:08.3
#5 (2011)
132
LL2
Audi TTS (2009)
3:08.4
#4 (2010)
133
LL2
Ford Mustang GT (2011)
3:08.6
#5 (2011)
134
LL2
Alfa Romeo 4C (2015)
3:08.8
#9 (2015)
135
LL3
Jaguar XFR (2011)
3:08.9
#5 (2011)
136
LL2
Lotus Elise (2006)
3:09.2
#1 (2007)
137
LL2
Chevrolet Corvette Z51 (2006)
3:09.3
#1 (2007)
138
LL2
Dodge Challenger SRT8 392 (2012)
3:09.4
#6 (2012)
139
LL2
Chevrolet Camaro SS (2010)
3:09.5
#4 (2010)
140
LL2
Porsche Cayman S (2006)
3:09.5
#1 (2007)
141
LL3
Audi S6 (2013)
3:09.8
#7 (2013)
142
LL3
BMW M6 (2006)
3:10.0
#1 (2007)
143
LL2
Dodge Charger SRT8 (2012)
3:10.1
#6 (2012)
144
LL3
BMW Z4 sDrive35is (2012)
3:10.4
#6 (2012)
145
LL2
Subaru WRX STI (2015)
3:10.5
#8 (2014)
146
LL2
BMW 335i coupe (2007)
3:10.5
#2 (2008)
147
LL2
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution SE (2010)
3:10.6
#5 (2011)
148
LL2
Audi S4 (2010)
3:10.8
#4 (2010)
149
LL2
Ford Shelby GT500 (2007)
3:11.0
#1 (2007)
150
SUV
BMW X5 M (2012)
3:11.1
#6 (2012)
151
LL3
Audi RS4 (2007)
3:11.2
#2 (2008)
152
LL2
Audi S3 (2015)
3:11.3
#9 (2015)
153
LL1
Subaru WRX Performance Package (2018)
3:11.5
#11 (2017)
154
LL2
BMW Z4 M coupe (2007)
3:11.7
#2 (2008)
155
LL2
Nissan 370Z NISMO (2009)
3:12.0
#4 (2010)
156
LL2
Volkswagen Golf R (2015)
3:12.3
#9 (2015)
157
LL1
Ford Mustang V-6 (2011)
3:12.5
#5 (2011)
158
LL1
Nissan 350Z Track (2006)
3:12.5
#1 (2007)
159
LL1
Chevrolet Cobalt SS (2008)
3:13.0
#3 (2009)
160
LL2
BMW 335i Sport Line (2012)
3:13.2
#7 (2013)
161
LL1
Ford Mustang GT (2010)
3:13.3
#4 (2010)
162
LL2
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR (2008)
3:13.3
#3 (2009)
163
LL2
Lexus IS350 F Sport (2014)
3:13.4
#8 (2014)
164
LL1
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR (2006)
3:13.5
#1 (2007)
165
LL2
BMW 135i (2008)
3:13.7
#3 (2009)
166
LL2
BMW 335is (2012)
3:13.8
#6 (2012)
167
LL2
Subaru Impreza WRX STI sedan (2011)
3:13.8
#5 (2011)
168
LL1
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-spec (2011)
3:13.8
#5 (2011)
169
LL1
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 R-spec (2013)
3:13.9
#7 (2013)
170
LL2
Volkswagen Golf R (2012)
3:14.0
#6 (2012)
171
LL2
Lexus IS F (2008)
3:14.0
#3 (2009)
172
LL1
Honda Civic Si (2017)
3:14.6
#11 (2017)
173
LL1
Volkswagen GTI (2015)
3:14.6
#9 (2015)
174
LL2
Audi S5 (2008)
3:14.6
#3 (2009)
175
LL1
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 (2010)
3:14.8
#4 (2010)
176
LL2
Honda S2000 CR (2008)
3:15.0
#3 (2009)
177
LL1
Mini Cooper Hardtop JCW (2015)
3:15.4
#9 (2015)
178
LL1
Subaru WRX (2015)
3:15.5
#8 (2014)
179
LL1
Ford Mustang EcoBoost (2015)
3:15.6
#9 (2015)
180
LL1
Pontiac Solstice GXP (2007)
3:15.7
#2 (2008)
181
LL2
Mini Clubman John Cooper Works (2017)
3:16.0
#11 (2017)
182
LL1
Mazdaspeed 3 (2007)
3:16.0
#2 (2008)
183
LL1
Mazdaspeed 3 (2010)
3:16.2
#4 (2010)
184
LL2
Dodge Challenger SRT8 (2008)
3:16.3
#3 (2009)
185
LL1
Subaru Impreza WRX sedan (2011)
3:16.5
#5 (2011)
186
LL1
Subaru Impreza WRX hatchback (2009)
3:16.6
#4 (2010)
187
LL2
Lotus Elise SC (2008)
3:16.6
#3 (2009)
188
LL2
Mazda RX-8 R3 (2010)
3:16.7
#5 (2011)
189
LL1
Fiat 124 Spider Abarth (2017)
3:16.9
#11 (2017)
190
LL1
Mini Cooper JCW (2009)
3:17.1
#4 (2010)
191
Electric Car
Tesla Model S P85D (2015)
3:17.4
#10 (2016)
192
SUV
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 (2012)
3:17.4
#6 (2012)
193
LL2
Infiniti G37S (2008)
3:17.5
#3 (2009)
194
LL1
Ford Focus ST (2014)
3:17.6
#8 (2014)
195
Cop Car
Dodge Charger Pursuit (2013)
3:17.8
#7 (2013)
196
LL2
Dodge Charger SRT8 (2006)
3:18.2
#1 (2007)
197
LL2
Mini Cooper Coupe JCW (2012)
3:18.4
#6 (2012)
198
LL1
Subaru BRZ (2013)
3:18.6
#7 (2013)
199
LL2
Subaru Impreza WRX STI (2008)
3:19.0
#3 (2009)

Manual wagons all seem to be over $50k so forget that even if the future looks very bright for them in terms of appreciation. Let's talk production numbers.

Total V2 wagons (2011-2014): 1,767 (514 M6 for a 29% take rate).
Total V2 coupes (2010-2015): 8,567 (1,239 M6 for a meager 14% take rate, shockingly).
Total V2 sedans (2009-2014): 10,765 which is actually a tad more than the V1 production but with an additional 2 years (only 1,400 M6 for an even more shocking 13% take rate - remember ALL V1s were M6).

What about issues?
Supercharger rattle would seem to be the top of my mental list on these. And GM extended the warranty to 10 years and 120k so pretty much any used contender is going to either have been done or is covered should the issue crop up.
http://forumfoundrycdn.com/nickj/auto/c ... verage.pdf

I had the same problem (rattle) on my 2009 CTS-V and the Cadillac dealer in Fort Myers Fl replaced the blower under warranty with no questions asked.

Here's a guy with a 2013 M6 wagon checking in.
https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2 ... 6mt-v.html

I have done periodic follow-ups on my '13 6MT V wagon and the '09 6AT V sedan I owned before it.

Can you believe I've had a CTS-V of some kind in my garage for NINE years as of March? I owned my '09 sedan from 3/09 (new) until I took delivery of my '13 6MT V wagon with Recaros and roof on 12/13/2012.

Primary message of this post is that these cars are RELIABLE. I've never been stranded at the side of the road, ever, in either of my Vs other than the one flat I had in my '09 eight years ago....and I've had a spare ever since, so that'll never happen again.

I've been driving it less and sharing the "fun" car duty with my 1999 NSX. As it sits today, the car has 40,519 miles on it. In the last year, I've driven it 2920 miles. I've occasionally thought of selling but always changed my mind after a spirited drive in the car. I love it, I have fun in it, and I occasionally carry stuff in it. Car still smells almost new.

But this is really the thread I was looking for.
https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2 ... -when.html

The overall consensus is they are reliable. These might be the best value in sport sedans right at the moment. If I didn't dump all that cash into the kitchen I could easily be driving one of these. I would definitely get a manual. For Bob, the A6 is a bit quicker so no real heartburn there.

[Bob]

The guy with the M6 wagon and the NSX is sitting on a couple of can't lose automotive investments. He can own these as long as he wants knowing they'll continue to go up in value.

[kevm14]

Currently own a STSV, the CTS-V2 are starting to come within my budget range so I am starting to look around for one. Is there a list of common failure/problems with the V2's? STSV has a list of common failure items: Shift to park, diff bushing, eats wheel bearings, Engine hot/AC OFF (bad therm), door handle antennas, dash bezel cracking, DVD/head unit failures, heated steering wheel failure.....

Hoping there is not a long list for the CTSV but looking for a real answer as I start my search.
I have heard of Supercharger and Fuel pump issues that are supposedly fixed by Cadillac free of charge. The ever present Condensation in headlights issue common in STS and CTS models. Are there other things to look out of when looking at one?

Response:

The easiest answer to your question : they are all fast as hell and solid drivetrains.

The answers you are looking for are the rear differential may whine, but the cure is the newer rear differential grease with the factory additive. Drive it around corners under various conditions and listen. If your car you are looking at had its differential replaced don't be upset or turned off. That's ok.

The S/C has been revised, and while it is no biggie, you probably want the under warranty replacement. Again, if the entire S/C has been replaced, it's all good.

These cars are solid. Oh, maybe the wheel clicking issue. Answer is the 2 piece front disks and all wheels torqued to 140 pounds.

Easy to mod and throw on gobs of HP, with no drivetrain mods. Having a good tuner is critical. Now, what's stopping you?

140 lb-ft, damn. Cue the "my lug nuts have more torque than your Honda" meme.

[kevm14]

The s/c merely had a noise - it was the isolater or some such part. Nothing wrong with the part, it only made noise. Later years it was corrected, I can't tell you which year. It's harmless other than noise. If you get one, tell the dealer it makes noise, please somehow fix it.

I thought the supercharger could grenade and take out the engine. Maybe that is not a thing.

no major changes 2010-2015,
2009 no backup camera but has auto sensing wipers
2010 no auto sensing wipers

super charger warrantied 10 years
rotors were changed to two piece at some time but other than navigation being stock equipment there were not big differance.
2009 the trunk reads left to right V ..... CTS after it was change to CTSV after this year.

[Bob]

I think the V2 is a pretty solid option. If I were to get something like that, I am not sure that I'd want to daily drive it due to the age and high price of consumables (getting like 12 MPG on premium and replacing tires frequently may not be the best, although it would be fun). The V2 would be an ideal part of my 4 car garage that would also include a beater daily driver. The Rondo could actually serve as the beater for now, although I'm not sure how I'd actually justify driving it when a V2 is just sitting there. Maybe if it was going to rain heavily all day... Another possible beater candidate would be my Dad's Honda Fit that I think he's going to get rid of soon in favor of something more fun.

[kevm14]

Yeah tires and fuel are going to be above average consumables in terms of....consumption. But that is just as well because V2 depreciation is going to take a huge dump with miles and any kind of daily wear/tear so the less of that you subject it to, the better. And buying on the lower end of the depreciation curve also makes sense - if you buy the $38k example that is guaranteed to be worth less than $25k in just a few years, after all. So some kind of daily box to balance out the miles makes a lot of sense. Of course you get to decide how much to drive it.

It is worth mentioning that I think the back seat legroom in a 2nd gen CTS is even worse than the 3rd gen CTS. You'd have to try it for yourself. I find my CTS sufficient, and I'd be surprised if a 2nd gen CTS was actually worse. I would expect it to be a bit better, but maybe not by much since the wheelbase did not change. It did get 1.5" longer, 2" wider and 1.5" taller so it should be larger inside overall. I could of course confirm that...