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The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:26 am
by kevm14
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JOTyqDS2PTM

Videos like this continue to prove that, on their own, these cars have a lot of merit. And I don't disagree. But what I can't get enough of is back to back comparisons with a car like the SS. It's interesting that Matt is like "this is so refined and balanced." The owner, who also has a 2015 Mustang GT (which is not the best handling pony car) said "this Charger is unrefined and handles poorly." Which is why it kind of falls apart next to a car like the SS, as I keep insisting. I mean, the owner said so. There was a 300C SRT article where these things were mentioned but it is rare.

Instrumented test: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/201 ... est-review

It's not like the performance is bad. Actually, it's quite good. My point is that you can dial back the acceleration a bit, but keep the space, muscle sound and comfort/features, and dial up the handling/feel/composure/refinement, for a similar price. I'd go further to claim that the SS gives you a chassis that you can't buy on an LX car at any price. Large sedan practicality, without having to give up the kind of performance you'd get from a modern pony car. The SS also has the very rare distinction of being available with a manual trans. It is a special car.

12.4 @ 115 mph puts this into C5 Z06 territory, in a big, numb family cruiser. Great brakes, good skidpad. As a daily/cruiser, there is nothing wrong with this. And in terms of price, you can sacrifice a few options and get it for like $5k less than an SS. I guess that makes the SS irrelevant to most, regardless of technical or intangible achievements. That's sad.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:36 am
by kevm14
The differences are clear yet irrelevant for most I think:
One thing this car has going for it is an utter lack of competition, other than the SS, which is very limited production. I test drove one a few months ago, and ended up going with a Chevy SS.
Driving the cars within a relatively short period from each other, the Charger felt even bigger than the 400 pounds of weight difference suggests--it still handled well, but you could feel the bulk.
I will not say this made the SS a better car, but more what I was looking for. No doubt, I liked many things about the Charger including the presence the SS just does not have to the observer on the street. It is also quicker, and behaves more like a muscle car when punched. You can also have the opportunity to take less options, making it cheaper.
For me, however, I like a vehicle that was a bit more understated and feels smaller. I am sure there are many that would prefer the Charger, and you really could not go wrong with either considering the pricing.
Even with suspension upgrades, there is little that can be done about the feeling of bulk. Scat Pack or not, that part remains the same until they upgrade the chassis, if Fiat ever does. Again, this car does not handle badly--it is actually quite good for its weight. I think you would have to drive the 2, whichever version, back to back, to see what I am saying. The SS just feels smaller, particularly when moving at higher speeds. Again, I like both, this was just what I was looking for.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:41 am
by kevm14
Pretty much this:
I'm sure this car handles better than many likely assume, but it's not a car that will dance at 9/10ths...or 8/10ths. 7/10ths probably feels pretty solid, though.
Does a car like this need to hold up at 9/10ths? No. But if I can have a fullsize sedan that does hold up, why wouldn't I want that?

I know I am definitely pissing into the wind at this point.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:44 am
by kevm14
10 years of progress:
10 years ago, Fall 2005, I bought a Charger SRT8 with the 425HP 6.1 for $41,000. As tested here, it ran 13.2@109 and pulled 0.86g on the skidpad. Today, you can get the Scat Pack for the same price but it runs 12.4@115 and pulls 0.91g on the skidpad for the same price! I love progress! Oh yeah, and MPG went from 14/19 to 15/25!

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:04 pm
by kevm14
I didn't bother driving a Charger, since they don't offer a proper transmission; but we did check out the Challenger, since it's got the biggest back seat of all the coupes. I'm guessing that the two will have a similar feel, given the manufacturer.

We drove an SS with a stick, and it was great: balanced, loud but not in your face, nicely laid out equipment, really long clutch with very short engagement zone. All in all, the perfect package: composed and demure enough for a daily driver, but ready to eat the road at a moments notice. Feels smaller than it really is, and more nimble than many smaller cars I've owned.

The Dodge made my wife giggle like a school girl as she dropped the clutch and floored it. The nose dives into corners, and it feels like it's coming loose constantly. Bottom line, I think it feels more fun because it makes you feel like you're earning it. Great for the fun factor I suppose, but I'm not sure I'd want to drive it EVERYDAY. I'd probably be physically tired after 20 min of mountain roads in this beast, where in the SS I'd go out of my way to add 20 min of twistys to a long drive. Feels like driving an aircraft carrier, but with fighter plane power- and that was just the RT!

I've driven the CTS-V on the track, and it's an incredible machine. I'm guessing that based on my SS drive it will be very similar, just a few knots slower out of the corners. The Dodge however, will be sitting in the pea gravel around the first compound turn, unless the driver really knows his stuff. I just have trouble imagining that massive front end not digging in on a hard right to left transition at speed.
This is exactly how I felt about the 2007 300C that I drove. And that was compared to my Caprice.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:19 pm
by bill25
I liked many things about the Charger including the presence the SS just does not have to the observer on the street. It is also quicker, and behaves more like a muscle car when punched. You can also have the opportunity to take less options, making it cheaper.
This is a big point that you are ignoring. I know you don't care about this but a lot of people do.

Also:
The Dodge made my wife giggle like a school girl as she dropped the clutch and floored it. The nose dives into corners, and it feels like it's coming loose constantly. Bottom line, I think it feels more fun because it makes you feel like you're earning it.
Some people prefer this also. I like the Challenger over the Charger but I wish Chevy made a Monte Version of this, or a Chevelle... Some people just want a really cool looking, big, loud, fun car. I don't think the SS fits the bill. If you just want a big track car, get the SS.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:46 pm
by kevm14
Both offer something the other does not. And the track advantages are evident in street driving.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:00 pm
by Bob
If the SS ran mid-12s at 115, would GM need to worry about ATS-V sales?

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:13 pm
by bill25
If they continue to pretend that the SS is a semi luxury car. If the SS looked like a muscle car, and rough around the edges, I would say no. Currently there are a lot of similarities between the new Camaro and the ATS-V, and I really want the Camaro, and don't really care about the ATS-V. Not that the ATS-V is bad, it is just a different class of car. I want a fast sports/muscle car, and don't care about luxury ride or badge. That is just my opinion. I would also argue that that is how Dodge/Chrysler gets away with it. The 300 is for "luxury" people and the Charger/Challenger is for the muscle crowd. I would also argue the ATS is too small compared to the SS. The SS would be closer in size to the CTS, and that is way more expensive, especially the CTS-V.

Re: The Smoking Tire: Charger Scat Pack

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:20 pm
by bill25
Also once they get the SS off the Australian platform, it should be a lot cheaper. They can sell a base HD Truck for 33K. There is no reason that they couldn't sell an SS for low 30's. One problem they do have is that there isn't an everyday car (Impala) to share the platform from.

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-2500 ... rucks.html