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Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:31 am
by kevm14
http://fossbytes.com/ubuntu-linux-on-wi ... reenshots/
This won’t be possible due to some virtual machine, emulator or a container. Instead, it’ll be with the help of Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows 10.
“Right, so just Ubuntu running in a virtual machine?” Nope! This isn’t a virtual machine at all. There’s no Linux kernel booting in a VM under a hypervisor. It’s just the Ubuntu user space. “Ah, okay, so this is Ubuntu in a container then?” Nope! This isn’t a container either. It’s native Ubuntu binaries running directly in Windows. “Hum, well it’s like cygwin perhaps?” Nope! Cygwin includes open source utilities are recompiled from source to run natively in Windows. Here, we’re talking about bit-for-bit, checksum-for-checksum Ubuntu ELF binaries running directly in Windows.
Still seems like a container. Or, rather, you'd WANT a container rather than native support. Well, depending on what you are trying to do...

Re: Ubunto Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:55 pm
by Adam
No, its just Windows being POSIX-compliant again. This was a thing back in the NT days. They moved away from it with WinXP. How times change. Or not.

Re: Ubunto Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:58 pm
by Adam
Or a hilarious April Fools joke.

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:49 am
by kevm14
But the implementation has never been done by MS before. I understand the functionality is similar to having an Ubuntu container integrated into the OS, not emulation (Cygwin) or a VM. This is an MS/Canonical partnership, which is kind of a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_S ... _for_Linux

Short but something.

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:35 am
by Adam
kevm14 wrote:But the implementation has never been done by MS before.
Yes it has:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX
The Unix system was supported under XP, turns out. It wasn't initially a MS implementation, but then they bought the company that did it and released multiple subsequent versions themselves (MS).
Like the Microsoft POSIX subsystem in Windows NT that it replaces, Interix is not an emulation of a Unix kernel, but rather an implementation of a user-mode subsystem running on the Windows NT kernel.[
Also, Cygwin is not emulation, it is Unix-ish environment built natively under Windows. In that environment shell you can run other Unix stuff. The shell runs in Windows. Basically the open-source implementation of the MS system above.

WINE is closer to an emulator, despite its name (WINE Is Not an Emulator). It is an API translation layer. It intercepts Windows syscalls in a *nix environment and executes the *nix equivalent. But that is going to other way (Windows programs on *nix systems).

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:07 am
by kevm14
Adam wrote: WINE is closer to an emulator, despite its name (WINE Is Not an Emulator). It is an API translation layer. It intercepts Windows syscalls in a *nix environment and executes the *nix equivalent. But that is going to other way (Windows programs on *nix systems).
Ubuntu for Windows will use a new piece of technology Microsoft created called Windows Subsystem for Linux, Canonical’s Dustin Kirkland said in a blog post. Instead of relying on a virtual machine or manually rewriting apps, the Windows Subsystem for Linux translates commands meant for the Linux kernel—the core part of the operating system—into commands for the Windows kernel. It’s not perfect, Hanselman and Kirkland admit, and there’s much work left to be done. But it should become possible to run many Linux tools on Windows without needing to make any changes.
http://www.wired.com/2016/03/microsoft- ... snt-crazy/

I am still not understanding. What he describes sounds like your WINE description.

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ ... ndows.html

Give that a read through.
"So maybe something like a Linux emulator?" Now you're getting warmer! A team of sharp developers at Microsoft has been hard at work adapting some Microsoft research technology to basically perform real time translation of Linux syscalls into Windows OS syscalls. Linux geeks can think of it sort of the inverse of "wine" -- Ubuntu binaries running natively in Windows. Microsoft calls it their "Windows Subsystem for Linux". (No, it's not open source at this time.)
Hmm.
Oh, and it's totally shit hot! The sysbench utility is showing nearly equivalent cpu, memory, and io performance.
So it's....a 99.9% efficient emulator?

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:41 am
by kevm14
Shockingly, Linux people are still cynical:
Embrace: Windows hearts Linux!
Extend: Linux Bash Shell on Windows!!!
Extinguish: All of that Ubuntu code is now ours, packaged with our closed source. We will sue anyone using it out of existence!
Or, at the very least "Everything you like about Linux, right here on Windows! No need to ever boot into Linux again, use only Windows FOREVER!"

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:41 pm
by bill25
It sounds more like a middleware for the Linux app and the Windows Kernel. It doesn't sound like it is emulating the Linux kernel, but taking a Linux Kernel call from the app, and translating it to a Windows Kernel call and sending it to the Windows Kernel, then taking the output and translating it back to Linux for the app. Maybe I am giving it too much credit and it isn't doing that much but that is what is sounds like.

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:45 pm
by bill25
Or, at the very least "Everything you like about Linux, right here on Windows! No need to ever boot into Linux again, use only Windows FOREVER!"
That is great "sky is falling" talk but this is one version of Linux at least so far, and Windows last I heard is not a pay for operating system anymore, so... what is being taken over to be sold?

Re: Ubuntu Linux on Windows 10

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:33 am
by Adam
Yeah, it looks like they took the WINE approach with syscall translation.

https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/P488

I'll install it when it is available to play with.