Repair-It

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:29 am**

http://www.superchevy.com/features/sucp ... w-engines/

This is actually pretty interesting. I'd rather see the article in another publication than Super Chevy, though. Not only does it downplay Ford and Mopar, but even the other GM engines. I want an objective read on all of this. That said, the sales pretty much prove the point that the Chevy offerings at the time were basically optimized for power, reliability, "race-ability" and cost.

It also provides a good reminder of how involved GM was with NHRA stuff starting from the late 50s.

This sums it up:

If you missed the 1958-1961 348 and 1961-1965 409 performance eras, you missed a really special time. The 1961 - 1965 409 new car sales totaled over 43,600. This was truly outstanding for the times.

Here's a nugget that talks about GM's backing out of supporting drag racing:

Around the same time as the NHRA Winternationals and NASCAR Daytona 500 , GM decided to again follow the AMA suggestion that no car manufacturer be involved in racing. It also had done so in 1957. The AMA was said to have included truck and train builders so we have never understood its reasoning. Neither did Ford Motor Company and Chrysler Corporation. Most professional GM racers had no other choice but to accept lucrative contracts with Ford or Chrysler. How do you stay loyal to a company that just closed its door and more or less left you stranded? Your financial means of support is drag racing plus building cars and engines. Result: GM lost a lot of talent in 1963 - many forever.

I don't fully understand the implications though. But it sounds like a lot of the fast paced development of the street engines from the late 50s to early 60s was heavily influenced by drag racing. In an era where drag racing (and stock car racing) was still relevant.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 am**

So many in fact that the Beach Boys coined their hit song "409" as a result in early 1963. As a result, 409 sales peaked that year.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:32 am**

Also keep in mind that in this era, it was not uncommon at all for regular people to still be deep in old stuff like a Ford flathead (which would have been competitively fast, at least on the small end of the track, due to the light weight of the T-buckets and stuff they were installed into). Everyone didn't just buy new cars and race them.

Posted: **Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:43 am**

It is also worth pointing out that in this muscle car era infancy, everything was a full size (i.e. B-body). Because that was the only place you could get big block horsepower. It wasn't until the GTO that they started to put big power in smaller cars from the factory. This applied to Ford's and Chryslers, as well. All the Mopar Hemi stuff that was going on at this time was also exclusively in their full size cars.

So let the record show - there's nothing illegitimate about a full size muscle car. They were the original muscle cars.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:28 am**

there's nothing illegitimate about a full size muscle car.

there was nothing illegitimate about a full size muscle car, until the A and F body came out... 50 years ago... and are automatically faster due to physics.

Posted: **Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:11 am**

I had a feeling you were going to say that. You could make the argument the full size ones existed only because they were the only available vessel for the highest output engines. But I don't think that makes them illegitimate after smaller ones were available. If that were true, then an equivalently powered Camaro or Mustang makes a Challenger illegitimate because they would be faster. There ARE other factors than just 1/4 mile per unit HP or whatever. Ultimately it is an experience. Speed may be a major driver but it's not the only one. I'd much rather have my turbo LS B-body than, say, that exact engine in a 4th gen F-body. The power is more usable and comfortable in the bigger car, with its longer wheelbase. An 800 hp F-body is going to struggle to do anything well other than go straight. Either that, or it will never hook up. Which is also pointless.

And 2:28am??

Posted: **Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:10 pm**

The physics part is more than just power to weight. The reduced weight of the smaller cars allows for better handling/cornering. Add in the lower center of gravity of some cars like the F-body and others and a taller bigger heavier car is obviously at a disadvantage. Agree that the longer wheelbase will help cruise comfort in a larger car.

Repair-It

Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block

Re: Super Chevy: 348 and 409 W-engine Chevy big block