Repair-It

Didn't know where to put these so I figured a general LS information thread should be created.

Here is a cool look at the last 20 years of the engine:
http://www.lsxmag.com/features/legend-s ... ine-power/


Here is an article about how GM actually attempted to create a production 10 cyl LS, but scrapped it... Literally.
http://www.lsxmag.com/news/prototype-gm ... -sale-ebay

bill25 wrote:Here is a cool look at the last 20 years of the engine:
http://www.lsxmag.com/features/legend-s ... ine-power/

Page not found...?

They moved it...

Here is the new link:

http://www.lsxmag.com/features/legnd-st ... ine-power/

That was pretty good.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which way this goes), this reminded me of something: The gen 5 Camaro SS with the automatic got the L99, not the LS3. Less power, and the reliability-challenged AFM system. If I were on the fence at all, that would easily push me to an M6. Or, you don't care, because you are going to rip it out and put something else in. Except your numbers matching L99 is never going to be as precious as the LS3. In which case....just boost the L99 after disabling AFM. Unless you are truly looking for iron-block only numbers but I think that is totally unnecessary.

Honestly I don't know how I missed this before.

C/D got a fairly lame 13.3 sec @ 107 mph for a 2010 A6.

It took GM a while with the gen 5 for it to get its performance mojo. This would be an FE3 A6. At 3,9xx lbs, it is decidedly tepid for what it is supposed to be.

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g.

I wonder if we can find a review of the updated FE4 base SS.

My biggest concern is the back seat and trunk on the convertible. I need to be able to fit a tween in the back seat and a set of golf clubs in the trunk.

HAHHAA

Alright no more ribbing Corvettes for their golf-loving owners. Though, this guy buying the Camaro convertible automatic with golf clubs in the back probably is in the Corvette demographic, minus the available cash...

Although with an 11-12 year old child, I'd say they are at most in their mid-40s.

I couldn't find the "Camaros for Bill" thread so I opted to give him shit here, instead.

kevm14 wrote:C/D got a fairly lame 13.3 sec @ 107 mph for a 2010 A6.

It took GM a while with the gen 5 for it to get its performance mojo. This would be an FE3 A6. At 3,9xx lbs, it is decidedly tepid for what it is supposed to be.

Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g.

I wonder if we can find a review of the updated FE4 base SS.

Well I found something entirely different. 2002 Camaro SS.

1/4 mile: 13.49 @ 107.34 mph. 3,411 lbs.

Conclusion: 80 fewer HP can do the same thing when there are 500 fewer pounds to haul around. This reminds me of Charger vs SS...

To be fair, this was a Camaro SS, the most powerful F-body available (well the WS6 was 325 or so, but that was a paper game anyway), and a 6-speed manual, which helps the trap. Still, their traps are the same. A 99 Z28 manual did 13.8 @ 104. Fun fact: that was from a Camaro/Mustang comparo test. The Camaro trapped 6 mph faster than the Mustang and also averaged 2 mpg better in their 500 mile drive. GM issued such a ridiculous whipping to Ford in those days of powertrain development. The Gen III was brand new while Ford had most of the decade to figure out how to get performance from the modular 4.6. And failed to do so. Of course the LS1 didn't really even trounce the LT1 stuff by all that much in raw output but it was such a flexible package and obviously quite future-proof (and boost-proof) as we know.

Also, the F-body's handling for regular Z28 models was not very good at the end. The SLP models helped dramatically but the regular Z28s weren't great. I can attest to that, just from riding in a 2000 SS. It makes sense, then, that the gen 5 didn't hit the ground as a sports car given all that history.

As far as advantages that extra 25 HP gets you in the LS3, being stuck with the slower shifting of the manual, not really sure:
https://www.0-60specs.com/chevrolet-camaro-0-60-times/

6A average ET: 13.167
6A average mph: 107.83

6M average ET: 13.025
6M average mph: 110.6375

From a strictly performance standpoint, the M6 is capable of a little more everything, but is obviously more dependent on driver skill. What isn't dependent on driver still is the nearly 3 mph of trap speed advantage, which is the performance you get when you punch it in gear (take the launch and shifting out of the equation, even though upshifting quickly is about the easiest thing to learn - it's the launch and smooth downshifting that will require some effort).

Two owners of 400+ hp vehicles have given you advice that the manual is really a lot more fun. I personally think flooring it and hanging onto the steering wheel will get boring after a while. Zeta is still a relatively modern platform and 400 hp in a modern 3,9xx lb car does not feel insane and out of control the way you might be imagining. I don't think there is much pride in stab-and-steer but shifting yourself means you are actually doing something to contribute to the performance of the vehicle. It's satisfying. And gives you a skill to work on and improve which is rewarding.

Over the years many manual controls have disappeared. You used to have a choke, spark advance and other stuff you had to adjust. Hell you used to have to pump your own brakes. After all of that, it is the manual transmission that withstood the test of time (even though numbers are dwindling in general), because it is the connection between the engine and the wheels. That is fundamental. You control the shift points. You control the shift firmness.

Automatics are great for big power but at gen 5 Camaro SS levels, I think the manual is 100% the way to go, and that is amplified by what I think should be your preference for the LS3 over the L99.