I couldn't find a thread for this for Bill so I started one.
I know the Gen 5 1LE is around $25k. If you can find one, and at any given time there are usually less than 10 for sale on Autotrader. So it will be difficult but not impossible.
That said, I wanted to know what the bottom of the market was for the Gen 5 SS, with FE4 (so 2012+). Here are some options that are all well under $20k:
2012, Ashen Gray, 59k, 2SS, M6. $16,999. Georgia.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
2013, Blue Ray, 70k, 1SS, A6. $17,618. South Carolina.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
2012, black w/ white stripes, 68k, 2SS, A6. $17,999. Illinois.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
2013, white w/ black stripes, 71k, 1SS, A6. $15,699. Hotlanta.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
2012, silver, 56k, 2SS, A6. $15,995. Texas.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
2012, black, 59k, 2SS, M6. $16,999. Georgia.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
I guess we have to go to Georgia.
Anyway, plenty of examples in my opinion to say that you don't need to pay over $20k, or even $20k, for a non-1LE. In fact all of these were $18k or less and have between 56k and 71k, nothing unreasonable.
Camaro hunting
Re: Camaro hunting
Here is the only one under $22k that is less than 100 mile radius. Happens to be in Warwick.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
Unfortunately it is a convertible.
Local non-convertible options are into the $23-24k range but also have lower mileage than my other examples (28-46k). Still, there seems to be a good ~$4k premium for something up our way. Conclusion: we go to Georgia, buy all the Camaros, sell all but one. Profit.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CAM
Unfortunately it is a convertible.
Local non-convertible options are into the $23-24k range but also have lower mileage than my other examples (28-46k). Still, there seems to be a good ~$4k premium for something up our way. Conclusion: we go to Georgia, buy all the Camaros, sell all but one. Profit.
Re: Camaro hunting
Looks like there are some better deals to be had in the south, probably due to the cars being higher mileage since they are more often used as year round daily drivers.
Re: Camaro hunting
Yeah, all of that makes sense and fits what I have seen. of those, only 2 are 2013, which is the ideal, and only one is just black, and it isn't a 2013. To sum up, there are zero black 2013 Camaro's mentioned, which are 2 of the pretty much only requirements aside from V8 and maybe manual... (2SS, ground effects and sunroof are nice to haves). I agree the one in Georgia is probably the closest to what I would want. No backup camera (started in 2013, so ugly radio too) though.
Re: Camaro hunting
Or you could just go all out: https://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/d/ ... 17054.html
Re: Camaro hunting
Yeah... I have been looking at these also to know the market. These seem to average around 32-36K... Pretty close to the 2016 Gen 6. I think the gen 5 has more interior room, especially back seat. If these came down more it would be very tempting, too bad for the supercharger engine grenade problem...
Re: Camaro hunting
The problem is, the original goal was $20k or even less if possible. Then it turned out the 1LE was solidly in the mid-20s (as opposed to $30k or more) and that seemed like something to go after. So go up another $7k and now that is ZL1 territory. I would speculate that the 1LE will hold its value the best long term.
I like to use lowest available pricing to set my expectation. If this ZL1 is $32k, I sure as hell do not expect to pay $40k for one, and thus would never pay $40k for one. Unless of course there is an actual flaw (salvage title or other actual damage, maybe prior rental history, something damning like that) in the cheap example (though I don't think much of assuming something is wrong with it lacking any other evidence).
The other issue is these are very sensitive to geographic area. It would be maybe kind of stupid to argue about $1k or $2k differences when travel costs will eat that up. But for $4k or more, it is worth considering pricing anywhere I think. So here's what I think I have:
2012+ SS (FE4, any color, M6 or A6): $18k or less for under 100k miles, sometimes like $16k.
1LE: ~$25k
ZL1: Low $30k range seems possible
There are meaningful differences in each of these models so I would personally need to stay well away from these price levels if I was actually buying the next model down in the hierarchy. In other words, if I am looking at my ideal 2013 black SS (non-1LE), I would need to be well away from that $25k price point to feel good about that deal (like $20k or less). Bill may feel differently - this is just how I look at it.
But maybe what I am really saying is, at least from where I sit, the price and model are more important than the color or whether the car is within a 100 mile radius - optimal color is great and close is also great but I would not personally pay much of a premium for either of those things. This is a purchase well into the 5 figures, so some inconvenience seems reasonable. The real issue is actually looking at the car to determine whether to buy. The actual pickup (or shipment) is kind of straight forward.
I like to use lowest available pricing to set my expectation. If this ZL1 is $32k, I sure as hell do not expect to pay $40k for one, and thus would never pay $40k for one. Unless of course there is an actual flaw (salvage title or other actual damage, maybe prior rental history, something damning like that) in the cheap example (though I don't think much of assuming something is wrong with it lacking any other evidence).
The other issue is these are very sensitive to geographic area. It would be maybe kind of stupid to argue about $1k or $2k differences when travel costs will eat that up. But for $4k or more, it is worth considering pricing anywhere I think. So here's what I think I have:
2012+ SS (FE4, any color, M6 or A6): $18k or less for under 100k miles, sometimes like $16k.
1LE: ~$25k
ZL1: Low $30k range seems possible
There are meaningful differences in each of these models so I would personally need to stay well away from these price levels if I was actually buying the next model down in the hierarchy. In other words, if I am looking at my ideal 2013 black SS (non-1LE), I would need to be well away from that $25k price point to feel good about that deal (like $20k or less). Bill may feel differently - this is just how I look at it.
But maybe what I am really saying is, at least from where I sit, the price and model are more important than the color or whether the car is within a 100 mile radius - optimal color is great and close is also great but I would not personally pay much of a premium for either of those things. This is a purchase well into the 5 figures, so some inconvenience seems reasonable. The real issue is actually looking at the car to determine whether to buy. The actual pickup (or shipment) is kind of straight forward.
Re: Camaro hunting
I don't know. I agree with most of your price generalizations. 16K for a SS under 100K seems pretty unrealistic. Lowest I have seen that don't seem like disasters are 18. You included 2012, which I am not, so there is that.
2013 SS - 18 - 23K depending on miles and options
2013 1LE 24 - 28K
ZL1 (years unknown) seem to be 32 - 36 or 38K
These are just my estimates. I generally delete high and low outliers as unrealistic to the market. Kevin doesn't, which is fine.
It is tough to say. A 2SS RS actually cost more than the 1LE 1SS no RS so I am not totally agreeing with your generalizations across the SS and 1LE options. The 1LE was a $3,500 package on an SS so a SS with over 3500 in options definitely will cross the line of 1LE pricing so I do not totally hand wave that away. If you don't want those options that is one thing, but to decide they are worthless on the market is not realistic. The ZL1 is easy. It was 58K and pretty much optioned similarly, kind of like the Chevy SS.
I agree if you are looking at 30K Gen 5, ZL1s should be in the discussion for 2-4K more. (I have seen a 1LE stripped (1SS no RS) for like 23K and a optioned up 1LE for 29K) The options in these cars varied the sale price greatly so to make a blanket statement like " I am not paying more than 16 or 18K for an SS because there is one on the planet for that price so I shouldn't pay more seems ridiculous to me.
2013 SS - 18 - 23K depending on miles and options
2013 1LE 24 - 28K
ZL1 (years unknown) seem to be 32 - 36 or 38K
These are just my estimates. I generally delete high and low outliers as unrealistic to the market. Kevin doesn't, which is fine.
It is tough to say. A 2SS RS actually cost more than the 1LE 1SS no RS so I am not totally agreeing with your generalizations across the SS and 1LE options. The 1LE was a $3,500 package on an SS so a SS with over 3500 in options definitely will cross the line of 1LE pricing so I do not totally hand wave that away. If you don't want those options that is one thing, but to decide they are worthless on the market is not realistic. The ZL1 is easy. It was 58K and pretty much optioned similarly, kind of like the Chevy SS.
I agree if you are looking at 30K Gen 5, ZL1s should be in the discussion for 2-4K more. (I have seen a 1LE stripped (1SS no RS) for like 23K and a optioned up 1LE for 29K) The options in these cars varied the sale price greatly so to make a blanket statement like " I am not paying more than 16 or 18K for an SS because there is one on the planet for that price so I shouldn't pay more seems ridiculous to me.
Re: Camaro hunting
Like I said, a $1k or $2k variation is fine. But if I can wait and save $4k or more from whatever generic list of cars that may be current on any given day, I'll be patient. That's why those data points are key. They may indicate where the depreciation is going. So if one data point exists and then is sold, there is a good chance another car will fill that slot at some point and that will only become more prevalent over time unless we are dealing with an appreciating asset. Prices aren't fixed. Many factors contribute to what ends up being a distribution of pricing for the same exact product, or similar enough that is can be considered the same. If it was just a formula, then you could type in your exact specs and get a list of cars for exactly the same price. That isn't the case of course. Since it is a distribution, I want to be on the low end of that. Whether it is the bottom 5, 10 or 20% I don't know, but somewhere on the bottom, given we are talking about the same product. Paying $5k more for a dealer one that simply got detailed after being bought at an auction is probably not a good buy.
I had not really considered options. It is good to know what something cost new though I find that usually does not translate linearly to used cars. If you really think it is common to seek out and value Camaros from 1SS, to 1SS RS to 2SS to 2SS RS, then I agree, those things matter. In my STS search, 1SG was not something that normal people knew about so that worked in my favor. Given your examples it seems like used Camaro buyers are valuing those packages in a similar way as they were priced new so that just means you pay for what you get which makes life simpler at least (i.e. it would be unlikely to find a 2SS RS for 1SS non-RS pricing).
Also yes on the 2012 thing. My list was a mix of 1SS and 2SS but the 2013s were only 1SS, and both automatics (I am still an L99 naysayer). Actually every 2012 in my list was a 2SS yet they ranged from $16-18k. I don't know what this means. I will drop the 2012s from future searches though.
I had not really considered options. It is good to know what something cost new though I find that usually does not translate linearly to used cars. If you really think it is common to seek out and value Camaros from 1SS, to 1SS RS to 2SS to 2SS RS, then I agree, those things matter. In my STS search, 1SG was not something that normal people knew about so that worked in my favor. Given your examples it seems like used Camaro buyers are valuing those packages in a similar way as they were priced new so that just means you pay for what you get which makes life simpler at least (i.e. it would be unlikely to find a 2SS RS for 1SS non-RS pricing).
Also yes on the 2012 thing. My list was a mix of 1SS and 2SS but the 2013s were only 1SS, and both automatics (I am still an L99 naysayer). Actually every 2012 in my list was a 2SS yet they ranged from $16-18k. I don't know what this means. I will drop the 2012s from future searches though.