Repair-It

Ok, I am going to spell out the process of buying a used (2011) RAV4. (This vehicle was not my idea...)
This particular one had 68,000 miles so that gave me some negotiating power.

1. I have had to deal with the trade variable in a dealership new car transaction before and decided to avoid that complication and not have a trade.

2. I actually got them to talk price of the car instead of payment which is the popular dealer route.

3. I asked them if they were flexible on the price ($16,500). This required them t go to the manager. They then asked me what I thought. Not very productive.

4. I said 15,500 plus their bullshit $250 in fees to register and do paperwork for a sale, but I didn't need their 24 hour roadside assistance because I have AAA.

5. They said 16 plus fees. I said 16 fees included.

6. Now all of a sudden they said the manager wasn't going to do it because somebody else was interested.

7. I said good, sell it to them, I wasn't interested anymore. I said I went there looking to give them an extra grand for a RAV4 with 45,000 miles on it and they didn't have one. Somebody else does.

8. Big surprise, nobody else was looking at it and they accepted 16,044 and they are giving me 3 free synthetic oil changes.

9. Now for financing.

10, they started telling me monthly payments with packages included. These packages included extended warranty through Toyota including labor, tire/rim warranties, Teflon sprays on the interior and exterior, and gap insurance. They failed to tell me the rate I qualified for or the term length without me asking.

11. My rate was 5.8 but they negotiated 4.9 for me and the payments were based on 72 months. I refused to go more than 60.

12. I requested the payment info with no package at 60 months. It was 337 a month.

13. They asked what I wanted my payment to be at to determine what packages I could add. I said 300.

14. They told me that wasn't possible so I told them that packages were out of the question because I was already 37 a month over budget.

15. A miracle happened, but only if I got a package. My rate with package was 2.94. They said my rate would be lower with the package because the dealership would pay the bank to lower my rate.

16. My options ended up being 337 a month no package, or 340 a month with a 42,000 mile extended mechanical warranty through Toyota including labor for 3 years.
and gap insurance.

17. I took the 340 option. Did I get screwed, ??? Who knows.

18. I may have gotten 3% through another bank, but loans on used cars are usually higher percentage than new so 2.94 is actually pretty good for a used vehicle. I am covered to 110,000 miles and have gap insurance. So If I got screwed, at least I have peace of mind for 3 of the 5 years of payments.

19. I wish anyone luck when buying a car, especially at a dealership. Hopefully you just learned a few new tricks up their sleeve.

This is why no one trusts dealership sales people. Because you shouldn't.

Best way to buy a car from a dealer:
1. Don't

If that isn't an option try:
1. Make an offer and tell them you will be paying cash. Then pay cash (or a bank check if you don't like carrying around $15000 in cash).
2. A variant of the above is to have a bank check for most of the intended cost and cash to cover the negotiating buffer.

I very much like negociating the total, out-the-door price, including any warranty, fees and tax. Let them fudge around with the numbers. Definitely not their preferred approach. I only did this once with Adam's new Maxima. When I bought my CTS-V, I actually did the negociation on the phone (both the CTS-V and trade-in value for the Fleetwood) which wasn't bad actually.

When I bought the Prius, I negotiated seriously with at least 5 dealers. I was negotiating price + BS fees, since all the tax, registration, etc is fixed no matter where I buy.

It helps because it requires one less step on your end. You don't need to mentally set aside $xxxx for whatever. In your case, you can afford whatever and just wanted to get the best deal.

I was just going for the lowest possible price. I was willing to pay more, but I decided to push the envelope to see what I could get since there were a lot of 2012s still on the lot in early 2013. It was easy to do because all the cars were new and similarly equipped. After I pushed so hard and got the lowest price out of one dealer, I had to sit there for a long time and get the hard sell on extended warranties, of which I bought none. When I commented on it afterward, the internet sales guy basically admitted that that was the only way they were going to make any money on the sale.

When you get into used cars, it becomes more complicated since there are many more variables (mileage, condition, warranty, etc).

They make more money on used cars because of those unknowns (and there's no "invoice" price for any used car). And by the way, the invoice on a new car isn't what that car cost the dealer.