Also need some external and internal 90 degree elbows for the garrison bump out. I guess like this?
https://inabadenko-america.com/products ... al-ell-sc/
Install ductless mini-split
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Got a little more serious with a tape measure and validated this plan. This looks feasible. Have to deal with the gutter on the left there.
Also need some external and internal 90 degree elbows for the garrison bump out. I guess like this?
https://inabadenko-america.com/products ... al-ell-sc/
Also need some external and internal 90 degree elbows for the garrison bump out. I guess like this?
https://inabadenko-america.com/products ... al-ell-sc/
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Whelp, it's dead. Threw a P4 code which has to do with compressor inverter drive. I am able to get it to run (and even make some heat) but it doesn't run long. Actually what it does is spools up trying to meet the demand, but sounds pretty bad.
My current operating theory is it had low refrigerant (either lately or the entire time), and me pushing it this heating season in turbo mode 24x7 was the straw that broke its back. Definitely seems like a vulnerability to the whole DIY concept. But, this is my theory. This was also a scratch and dent (and it was scratched and dented). Not sure how that factors in (warranty is the same).
The good news is, I reached out to Ingrams (IWAE) and they requested the basic info for a claim. Serial numbers, etc. I provided that and a picture of the P4 code.
Today I got a voicemail that they plan to process a condenser (outside unit) replacement. I will have to pay shipping but that's it.
The concern I will express is, what if the compressor put junk into the rest of the system? I did read one anecdote in a Youtube comment that he went through the same thing for the same reason and the replacement lasted 20 minutes before the junk clogged everything. He got a whole new system. My angle is, don't make me pay twice for shipping (and installation of the outside unit).
What I REALLY want is a gen 4 unit. I guess my plan will have to be take the condenser, see how it goes. If it fixes the issue I guess that's good.
My current operating theory is it had low refrigerant (either lately or the entire time), and me pushing it this heating season in turbo mode 24x7 was the straw that broke its back. Definitely seems like a vulnerability to the whole DIY concept. But, this is my theory. This was also a scratch and dent (and it was scratched and dented). Not sure how that factors in (warranty is the same).
The good news is, I reached out to Ingrams (IWAE) and they requested the basic info for a claim. Serial numbers, etc. I provided that and a picture of the P4 code.
Today I got a voicemail that they plan to process a condenser (outside unit) replacement. I will have to pay shipping but that's it.
The concern I will express is, what if the compressor put junk into the rest of the system? I did read one anecdote in a Youtube comment that he went through the same thing for the same reason and the replacement lasted 20 minutes before the junk clogged everything. He got a whole new system. My angle is, don't make me pay twice for shipping (and installation of the outside unit).
What I REALLY want is a gen 4 unit. I guess my plan will have to be take the condenser, see how it goes. If it fixes the issue I guess that's good.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
I uploaded my video of the compressor running and sent a link to Ingrams.
https://youtu.be/jwYxOhb0SCY
A tech actually called me within 10 minutes (crazy) and basically said, our diagnosis is the same. Ok fine. So the plan now is to basically pay for freight and I will get a new outside unit. I assume it will be a late production Gen 3, unless a Gen 4 is magically compatible. I will try to validate the model number and answer that question when it arrives. NO CLUE on the turnaround for this but I suspect there are Gen 3s sitting around - I don't think they are still in production. The posture now is await some kind of communication that results in me giving someone from Ingrams my credit card and shipping address.
He did also say that unlike a conventional system, replacing the entire outside unit is really the only way to fix what he thinks is my issue. Everything is kind of integrated so there is no replacing the compressor motor, or the controller or parts like that. I did ask about reliability. He said the first gen definitely had some issues but by gen 3 things were pretty solid. That's what my initial research yielded so maybe this isn't that common after all. I also specifically asked if he has experience with this issue and a new outside unit fixes it: obviously he said it does.
The GOOD news is, it is a simple job. Close refrigerant valves, remove lines and the unique Mr Cool line design closes off the lines when disconnected so no refrigerant is lost. Then just disconnect the electrical/control wires. Finally, unbolt the 4 mounting feet and lift the thing off the brackets. That's it. Assembly is the reverse of removal. Connect and go. You could say it was designed to accommodate this kind of repair, continuing the DIY theme. So IF this actually fixes it, we'll say that's a win.
Anyway, this is all under warranty and if this fix doesn't take, I would almost certainly get a whole new system out of it. At that point I would press hard for a Gen 4 to make it worth my while. Unfortunately that will require me to redo the condenser labor and also totally replace the rest of the system AND pay for freight. Not exactly "free" but definitely heavily subsidized. Replacing the inside unit will also solve my Smart HVAC controller issue. We'll see what happens.
It's also worth pointing out that Ingrams is handling the entire warranty claim for me. If I bought from a lesser source (particularly eBay or Amazon) I'd have to deal directly with Mr Cool. I have a strong suspicion having Ingrams in the loop is highly beneficial.
https://youtu.be/jwYxOhb0SCY
A tech actually called me within 10 minutes (crazy) and basically said, our diagnosis is the same. Ok fine. So the plan now is to basically pay for freight and I will get a new outside unit. I assume it will be a late production Gen 3, unless a Gen 4 is magically compatible. I will try to validate the model number and answer that question when it arrives. NO CLUE on the turnaround for this but I suspect there are Gen 3s sitting around - I don't think they are still in production. The posture now is await some kind of communication that results in me giving someone from Ingrams my credit card and shipping address.
He did also say that unlike a conventional system, replacing the entire outside unit is really the only way to fix what he thinks is my issue. Everything is kind of integrated so there is no replacing the compressor motor, or the controller or parts like that. I did ask about reliability. He said the first gen definitely had some issues but by gen 3 things were pretty solid. That's what my initial research yielded so maybe this isn't that common after all. I also specifically asked if he has experience with this issue and a new outside unit fixes it: obviously he said it does.
The GOOD news is, it is a simple job. Close refrigerant valves, remove lines and the unique Mr Cool line design closes off the lines when disconnected so no refrigerant is lost. Then just disconnect the electrical/control wires. Finally, unbolt the 4 mounting feet and lift the thing off the brackets. That's it. Assembly is the reverse of removal. Connect and go. You could say it was designed to accommodate this kind of repair, continuing the DIY theme. So IF this actually fixes it, we'll say that's a win.
Anyway, this is all under warranty and if this fix doesn't take, I would almost certainly get a whole new system out of it. At that point I would press hard for a Gen 4 to make it worth my while. Unfortunately that will require me to redo the condenser labor and also totally replace the rest of the system AND pay for freight. Not exactly "free" but definitely heavily subsidized. Replacing the inside unit will also solve my Smart HVAC controller issue. We'll see what happens.
It's also worth pointing out that Ingrams is handling the entire warranty claim for me. If I bought from a lesser source (particularly eBay or Amazon) I'd have to deal directly with Mr Cool. I have a strong suspicion having Ingrams in the loop is highly beneficial.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
More good news: The outside unit is a gen 4 because they don't have any more gen 3s. Basically, it's this: https://iwae.com/shop/18k-btu-22-seer-m ... 22099.html
They also agreed to send a new USB dongle for the Smart HVAC and a new USB Controller for the inside unit. This should resolve my Smart HVAC issue. Very good.
Freight for the outside unit was $225. Kinda steep. But current price of what they are sending me is $1432 so that's something.
Gen 3: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/30947/7/25000///0
Gen 4: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/64880/7/25000///0
Gen 3 does seem to produce more max heat but for the most part is less efficient. At rated heat output at 17F, the gen 4 has a higher COP and also produces more heating BTUs. However, at 5F, the gen 4 maxes out at 11,600 BTUs with a COP of 2.19 while the gen 3 manages 12,357 BTUs with a COP of 2.17. I would call that a wash. Slightly less heat, and slightly less electricity use. Things definitely look better at 17F in the "rated" zone, although max is still less with the gen 4 AND the COP is worse. This tells me that my turbo mode results will effectively be "worse" with gen 4 but using it normally should be "better." The HSPF rating suggests a nominal 15% better efficiency in heat mode, after all.
The overall effect should be more heat for less energy cost and less reliance on turbo mode. I should probably just not use it at all and see how it does this winter. Although, I might want to really work the new unit to make sure it doesn't fail. I don't want to delay an inevitable failure because if it happens too far in the future from replacing the outside unit, they may say it's unrelated. So I guess the plan would be to work it continuously. Perhaps I will run it for 24-48 hours in regular mode just to see how it responds. Then if that goes well, try turbo mode (particularly if I can time it with a cold snap) and see if everything still looks/feels healthy. If so then maybe it's a win and it's fixed. I have my doubts.
As far as overall heating capacity, I noticed that there are models on the market that maintain 100% rated output down to 5F (and some go lower than that, like -5F). Digging into the specs a bit what I found is that the way those manage to do that is simply by having more capacity. So while they may still be "rated" at 18k BTU, and they will output 18k BTU of heat at 5F (or less), they are also capable of almost twice that at warmer temps. Also, they use substantially more electricity to create that output at cold temps. The COP is also lower in extremis. No free lunch here. Mr Cool does make a model that has characteristics like this but it is not DIY. In theory, this would be a better fit for my great room because of how cold the room gets. With a model of those characteristics I might be able to close the furnace dampers (as was my original plan) and not just supplement the furnace. All that said, I have no clue when such a capability will come to the DIY. Perhaps gen 5?
Anyway, the point is, even with more output, it is using more electricity and the COP drops, so even though it could have the capacity to heat, there are situations where you may not want to use it (like when fossil fuels are cheaper).
They also agreed to send a new USB dongle for the Smart HVAC and a new USB Controller for the inside unit. This should resolve my Smart HVAC issue. Very good.
Freight for the outside unit was $225. Kinda steep. But current price of what they are sending me is $1432 so that's something.
Gen 3: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/30947/7/25000///0
Gen 4: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/64880/7/25000///0
Gen 3 does seem to produce more max heat but for the most part is less efficient. At rated heat output at 17F, the gen 4 has a higher COP and also produces more heating BTUs. However, at 5F, the gen 4 maxes out at 11,600 BTUs with a COP of 2.19 while the gen 3 manages 12,357 BTUs with a COP of 2.17. I would call that a wash. Slightly less heat, and slightly less electricity use. Things definitely look better at 17F in the "rated" zone, although max is still less with the gen 4 AND the COP is worse. This tells me that my turbo mode results will effectively be "worse" with gen 4 but using it normally should be "better." The HSPF rating suggests a nominal 15% better efficiency in heat mode, after all.
The overall effect should be more heat for less energy cost and less reliance on turbo mode. I should probably just not use it at all and see how it does this winter. Although, I might want to really work the new unit to make sure it doesn't fail. I don't want to delay an inevitable failure because if it happens too far in the future from replacing the outside unit, they may say it's unrelated. So I guess the plan would be to work it continuously. Perhaps I will run it for 24-48 hours in regular mode just to see how it responds. Then if that goes well, try turbo mode (particularly if I can time it with a cold snap) and see if everything still looks/feels healthy. If so then maybe it's a win and it's fixed. I have my doubts.
As far as overall heating capacity, I noticed that there are models on the market that maintain 100% rated output down to 5F (and some go lower than that, like -5F). Digging into the specs a bit what I found is that the way those manage to do that is simply by having more capacity. So while they may still be "rated" at 18k BTU, and they will output 18k BTU of heat at 5F (or less), they are also capable of almost twice that at warmer temps. Also, they use substantially more electricity to create that output at cold temps. The COP is also lower in extremis. No free lunch here. Mr Cool does make a model that has characteristics like this but it is not DIY. In theory, this would be a better fit for my great room because of how cold the room gets. With a model of those characteristics I might be able to close the furnace dampers (as was my original plan) and not just supplement the furnace. All that said, I have no clue when such a capability will come to the DIY. Perhaps gen 5?
Anyway, the point is, even with more output, it is using more electricity and the COP drops, so even though it could have the capacity to heat, there are situations where you may not want to use it (like when fossil fuels are cheaper).
Re: Install ductless mini-split
The UPS tracking said before 9pm so I guess any optimism that I would have received this with ample time to install was unrealistic.
Around 5pm I walked into the great room and opened up a window shade telling Jamie that I need to leave these open so I can see when the UPS guy comes. When I opened it, I noticed that the UPS truck was in my driveway and the guy was outside, and saw me open the shade. That's quite a coincidence.
Went outside to help. He seemed very relieved that I was going to help unload. I think he said it was 130 lbs in the box. He was by himself. I guess normally he has a helper, and she has another vehicle. But he made some comment that even though she wasn't available, neither she nor her vehicle would have lended themselves to this particular package.
Anyway, I got out one of my Harbor Freight dollies and we both pulled it off the truck and laid it on the dolly. Easy. Rolled it into the garage behind the Malibu. Done. I know I paid $225 for shipping but the warranty order was processed on 12/20 and it shipped 12/21. Makes that $225 a little easier to swallow.
Around 5pm I walked into the great room and opened up a window shade telling Jamie that I need to leave these open so I can see when the UPS guy comes. When I opened it, I noticed that the UPS truck was in my driveway and the guy was outside, and saw me open the shade. That's quite a coincidence.
Went outside to help. He seemed very relieved that I was going to help unload. I think he said it was 130 lbs in the box. He was by himself. I guess normally he has a helper, and she has another vehicle. But he made some comment that even though she wasn't available, neither she nor her vehicle would have lended themselves to this particular package.
Anyway, I got out one of my Harbor Freight dollies and we both pulled it off the truck and laid it on the dolly. Easy. Rolled it into the garage behind the Malibu. Done. I know I paid $225 for shipping but the warranty order was processed on 12/20 and it shipped 12/21. Makes that $225 a little easier to swallow.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
And done.
https://youtu.be/dxqTIHaozcE
Thanks to Bill for helping. Probably took about 6 hours give or take some running out to Ace...
Probably spent another hour the next day tidying up the lines (insulation, tape, zipties).
Everything is working well. Been running for over 36 hours with no issues. Hope it lasts.
https://youtu.be/dxqTIHaozcE
Thanks to Bill for helping. Probably took about 6 hours give or take some running out to Ace...
Probably spent another hour the next day tidying up the lines (insulation, tape, zipties).
Everything is working well. Been running for over 36 hours with no issues. Hope it lasts.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
So back in November the WiFi part of the inside unit stopped working. A little digging suggested that the dongles like to die. I opened a ticket with Ingrams. They referred me to the Smart HVAC side of the house which is actually a company called Cielo. I called them. They walked me through some process and came to the conclusion that my USB dongle was actually working but the controller it plugs into wasn't. It wasn't long after this that the compressor died so this issue fell to the back burner.
During the warranty process with Ingrams I mentioned this issue and they sent me another dongle (not what I asked for). Not surprisingly, this didn't fix anything. I e-mailed back to Ingrams and said, no, I need the thing the dongle plugs into which Cielo called the USB Controller. It's confusing because the dongle comes in a box labeled "USB Controller" so I can't totally blame Ingrams here.
Anyway I tried to clarify and sure enough they sent me both the controller and the main display board that the controller plugs into!
I decided to try replacing just the controller rather than replace more things than are needed. I was able to do this and used the new dongle. No joy but for the first time I could see the SSID of the dongle on my phone. I think I would have had to blow away my settings and reinitialize. So I tried the old dongle. It worked!!
New one
Installed
And yeah everything is finally back to square one before all the failures. Not a great beginning of the second year of this thing but the warranty part seems good and Ingrams is very good. Actually I think this is a bigger win than I am letting on because Cielo seemed to think that the SmartHVAC components were only under warranty for 1 year which has elapsed.
The funny thing is after all this I ended up updating the firmware on my SmartHVAC wall thermostat which added follow-me mode. That just means the wall thermostat actually acts like a thermostat and senses the temperature at the thermostat instead of inside the air handler. This is not possible when I am using the WiFi programs. So I think I will continue using the wall thermostat but now I can at least check on the mini-split at any time, including controlling it or even checking the temperature of the room.
I am running the wood stove so that's why it says 85F. The room isn't actually 85F but the air handler is high on the wall near the stove so there you go.
During the warranty process with Ingrams I mentioned this issue and they sent me another dongle (not what I asked for). Not surprisingly, this didn't fix anything. I e-mailed back to Ingrams and said, no, I need the thing the dongle plugs into which Cielo called the USB Controller. It's confusing because the dongle comes in a box labeled "USB Controller" so I can't totally blame Ingrams here.
Anyway I tried to clarify and sure enough they sent me both the controller and the main display board that the controller plugs into!
I decided to try replacing just the controller rather than replace more things than are needed. I was able to do this and used the new dongle. No joy but for the first time I could see the SSID of the dongle on my phone. I think I would have had to blow away my settings and reinitialize. So I tried the old dongle. It worked!!
New one
Installed
And yeah everything is finally back to square one before all the failures. Not a great beginning of the second year of this thing but the warranty part seems good and Ingrams is very good. Actually I think this is a bigger win than I am letting on because Cielo seemed to think that the SmartHVAC components were only under warranty for 1 year which has elapsed.
The funny thing is after all this I ended up updating the firmware on my SmartHVAC wall thermostat which added follow-me mode. That just means the wall thermostat actually acts like a thermostat and senses the temperature at the thermostat instead of inside the air handler. This is not possible when I am using the WiFi programs. So I think I will continue using the wall thermostat but now I can at least check on the mini-split at any time, including controlling it or even checking the temperature of the room.
I am running the wood stove so that's why it says 85F. The room isn't actually 85F but the air handler is high on the wall near the stove so there you go.
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Did some poking around mostly comparing AHRI specs for my single zone 18k (for a point of reference) as well as a dual zone 18k plus a tri-zone 27k. The reason to include the 27k is because for one of my 2 zone setups, I plan to run a 9k upstairs and probably a 12k downstairs. That can be paired with either the 18k or 27k outside unit. I wanted to compare efficiencies and output.
Current great room single zone 18k: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62013/7/25000///0
18k dual zone: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62016/7/25000///0
27k tri-zone: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62017/7/25000///0
There are some interesting differences among these three units but the overall conclusion I came to is that the 18k outside unit is probably fine for my 9k+12k setup. Also, if I decided to run a 27k outside unit for this 2 zone installation, I would think an 18k for the downstairs would make sense. That way I could at least tap into the capacity of the 27k. I don't know if there is any performance downside (like dehumidification). I think any limitation on throttling down is with the outside unit. Obviously the 18k is larger and more expensive. It's probably overkill as this would give me a total of 5-1/4 tons household A/C capacity. But oversizing A/C to get better heat output is a thing with these.
Another interesting thing is that the 2 zone 18k has significantly more dynamic range of output than my single zone 18k. It can cool and heat to a lower minimum amount than my single zone. It also has a higher max output. In fact, for cooling, even the 27k tri-zone has similar minimums as my 18k single zone! That explains why I thought the dehumidification was kind of weak. It tends to overcool if you want the system to run. It can't really throttle back and keep that coil cold with low airflow. For heating, the 27k does have higher minimums than my 18k.
To see if the cost difference helps make the decision, here are the different kit options (not including extras but those are mostly a wash aside from the extra cost to run 10ga wire for the 27k outside unit):
Lowest option
18k outside
9k+12k inside
$2,854
Middle option (probably a wasted option)
27k outside
9k+12k inside
$3,182
High option (between this and low I think)
27k outside
9k+18k inside
$3,332
So really the cost difference I am looking at is between the high and low option. $478 extra plus the extra cost to run the 10ga. In the long run I suppose this is irrelevant if I really thought this was the right option. But I kind of don't. I think the lower floor of the 18k outside unit will be better, because there could be situations where the downstairs isn't calling for A/C but the bedroom is and with a 27k outside, the min BTU output is still on the order of 7.2k to 8k. That is a real problem because it would mean that 9k inside unit would need to run nearly wide open and either make the room too cold or shut off. The 18k dual zone can throttle down to 5.4k to 5.8k which is still high but obviously a better range for many conditions. In a normal cooling scenario, those min BTUs wouid be split in some way between the bedroom and downstairs so no issues. Heating is a similar concern I guess. Now I will say that 9k+12k is 21k not 18k so I will miss 3k of theoretical output because the outside unit will be 18k nominal. This is OK because I think the 9k bedroom unit will often have that 3k to spare while the downstairs is using more of that 12k capacity. Furthermore, by spec the 18k dual zone outside unit actually can beat its rated capacity in certain scenarios. For cooling it actually shows a max capacity of 21.6 to 22k so it can totally handle those transient peak scenarios. Even for heating it will do 24k with a mild 47F outside temp!! I think that makes my decision easy right there, and the low option is cheaper anyway.
Also from what I've seen from our 8k window A/C (after insulating), that unit actually cycles even on the hottest days. So that 9k unit will almost always be throttled down except in extreme situations where the house happens to be super hot and we want to cool it down quickly. These systems work best when you have a more consistent temperature so I guess I just wouldn't let the house get like that, and if we aren't home I could always cycle the system on remotely to get temps more under control before we get home. Many options here.
All that said, I am considering doing the kids' rooms 9k+9k setup first (which would obviously be paired with an 18k outside unit) because the windows where their window A/Cs usually go will be replaced in the next month or two and I'd rather not do a window unit in brand new windows. Plus their rooms run older window A/Cs. They have less A/C load in the summer but probably more heating load in the winter, than some other rooms.
I think a prudent plan is to do the 9k+9k and basically go an entire season with it. I would have the great room on an 18k, plus an upstairs and downstairs bedroom on a 9k each. That's 3 tons of nominal cooling capacity right there. I would think that would allow me to estimate the needed remaining capacity for the master bed plus downstairs unit (even though I pretty much already made the decision above).
Current great room single zone 18k: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62013/7/25000///0
18k dual zone: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62016/7/25000///0
27k tri-zone: https://ashp.neep.org/#!/product/62017/7/25000///0
There are some interesting differences among these three units but the overall conclusion I came to is that the 18k outside unit is probably fine for my 9k+12k setup. Also, if I decided to run a 27k outside unit for this 2 zone installation, I would think an 18k for the downstairs would make sense. That way I could at least tap into the capacity of the 27k. I don't know if there is any performance downside (like dehumidification). I think any limitation on throttling down is with the outside unit. Obviously the 18k is larger and more expensive. It's probably overkill as this would give me a total of 5-1/4 tons household A/C capacity. But oversizing A/C to get better heat output is a thing with these.
Another interesting thing is that the 2 zone 18k has significantly more dynamic range of output than my single zone 18k. It can cool and heat to a lower minimum amount than my single zone. It also has a higher max output. In fact, for cooling, even the 27k tri-zone has similar minimums as my 18k single zone! That explains why I thought the dehumidification was kind of weak. It tends to overcool if you want the system to run. It can't really throttle back and keep that coil cold with low airflow. For heating, the 27k does have higher minimums than my 18k.
To see if the cost difference helps make the decision, here are the different kit options (not including extras but those are mostly a wash aside from the extra cost to run 10ga wire for the 27k outside unit):
Lowest option
18k outside
9k+12k inside
$2,854
Middle option (probably a wasted option)
27k outside
9k+12k inside
$3,182
High option (between this and low I think)
27k outside
9k+18k inside
$3,332
So really the cost difference I am looking at is between the high and low option. $478 extra plus the extra cost to run the 10ga. In the long run I suppose this is irrelevant if I really thought this was the right option. But I kind of don't. I think the lower floor of the 18k outside unit will be better, because there could be situations where the downstairs isn't calling for A/C but the bedroom is and with a 27k outside, the min BTU output is still on the order of 7.2k to 8k. That is a real problem because it would mean that 9k inside unit would need to run nearly wide open and either make the room too cold or shut off. The 18k dual zone can throttle down to 5.4k to 5.8k which is still high but obviously a better range for many conditions. In a normal cooling scenario, those min BTUs wouid be split in some way between the bedroom and downstairs so no issues. Heating is a similar concern I guess. Now I will say that 9k+12k is 21k not 18k so I will miss 3k of theoretical output because the outside unit will be 18k nominal. This is OK because I think the 9k bedroom unit will often have that 3k to spare while the downstairs is using more of that 12k capacity. Furthermore, by spec the 18k dual zone outside unit actually can beat its rated capacity in certain scenarios. For cooling it actually shows a max capacity of 21.6 to 22k so it can totally handle those transient peak scenarios. Even for heating it will do 24k with a mild 47F outside temp!! I think that makes my decision easy right there, and the low option is cheaper anyway.
Also from what I've seen from our 8k window A/C (after insulating), that unit actually cycles even on the hottest days. So that 9k unit will almost always be throttled down except in extreme situations where the house happens to be super hot and we want to cool it down quickly. These systems work best when you have a more consistent temperature so I guess I just wouldn't let the house get like that, and if we aren't home I could always cycle the system on remotely to get temps more under control before we get home. Many options here.
All that said, I am considering doing the kids' rooms 9k+9k setup first (which would obviously be paired with an 18k outside unit) because the windows where their window A/Cs usually go will be replaced in the next month or two and I'd rather not do a window unit in brand new windows. Plus their rooms run older window A/Cs. They have less A/C load in the summer but probably more heating load in the winter, than some other rooms.
I think a prudent plan is to do the 9k+9k and basically go an entire season with it. I would have the great room on an 18k, plus an upstairs and downstairs bedroom on a 9k each. That's 3 tons of nominal cooling capacity right there. I would think that would allow me to estimate the needed remaining capacity for the master bed plus downstairs unit (even though I pretty much already made the decision above).
Re: Install ductless mini-split
Ok I have a big update.
Ordered the following from Ingrams:
• (X) Mr Cool 18k dual zone gen 4
- Have 25 available (expect a ton within next week). New condensers: $1333
- Grade A (-$149): $1184 (minimal damage, can't really see) (50 available)
- Grade B (-$286): $1047 (minimal damage but somewhat visible) (34 available)
https://iwae.com/shop/18k-btu-21-seer-m ... 22045.html
• (X) 2 x 9k inside units
• (X) 1 x 16' lineset
• (X) 1 x 25' lineset
• (X) Various elbows (see diagram on forum) and additional straight pieces
- 3 x Standard 12' kit
• (X) Disconnect
• (X) Whip
Total: $3,139.49 with a new condenser
ORDERED 7/3/23: Total with Grade A scratch & dent condenser: $2,990.49
Total with Grade B scratch & dent condenser: $2,853.49
Discount included: $50
After discussing with the lady on the phone I went with a Grade A scratch & dent. It saves $149 and claims you pretty much can't see the blemish. This tells me some picky person returned it. Furthermore, my logic is I have a reasonable chance of having my own slightly imperfect unit as of brand new, and I would NOT go through the hassle of sending it back over a minor blemish, so I'll just take the discount. Of course, in theory, a scratch & dent unit (one that was customer rejected) would have additional shipping time and thus could technically sustain more damage (i.e. a Grade A could actually get worse as it is exposed to more handling). I decided Grade B (which is also probably fine) was slightly more risky (considering that my original condenser in the great room did fail after a year and was a scratch & dent).
Ordered from Amazon:
- DiversiTech QSMS1801 18" mini-split stand. The width of the adjustable arms falls 0.1" short on paper but I am taking a leap that I can make this work.
- 50 feet of 10/2 cable. I decided to splurge and go with 10 ga for less cable losses. The manual said 12 min and 10 ideal. This was $79 on Amazon but Home Depot for the exact same thing is $139. How about that?
Total from Amazon OTD: $403.80 (the stand is expensive)
Ordered from Home Depot:
- 25A 240V breaker. I could have done a 20A but with 10ga I may as well run the max specified in the manual which is 25A. Home Depot does not stock the 25A in the store so I just ordered it. This was CHEAPER than Amazon this time.
Total for Home Depot: $20.19
Total cost for what I have ordered so far: $3,414.75
I will still have some misc costs mostly associated with finalizing the stand (basically how I choose to level the ground) as well as the final gutter design. These costs will be relatively minimal.
Looks like there is a 30% federal tax credit against the whole project that I MAY be able to claim (depends on how picky they are with the DIY nature of this job), plus a RI Energy discount of $225. The thing I will need to remember is I think the first one is claimed through taxes when I do my 2023 taxes. The utility one is claimed basically immediately, or within 90 days. I blew this on my first unit so I will try not to repeat that mistake. That would theoretically bring the project cost down to $2,165.33, a savings of $1,249.42 which is significant. We'll see how it goes.
Ordered the following from Ingrams:
• (X) Mr Cool 18k dual zone gen 4
- Have 25 available (expect a ton within next week). New condensers: $1333
- Grade A (-$149): $1184 (minimal damage, can't really see) (50 available)
- Grade B (-$286): $1047 (minimal damage but somewhat visible) (34 available)
https://iwae.com/shop/18k-btu-21-seer-m ... 22045.html
• (X) 2 x 9k inside units
• (X) 1 x 16' lineset
• (X) 1 x 25' lineset
• (X) Various elbows (see diagram on forum) and additional straight pieces
- 3 x Standard 12' kit
• (X) Disconnect
• (X) Whip
Total: $3,139.49 with a new condenser
ORDERED 7/3/23: Total with Grade A scratch & dent condenser: $2,990.49
Total with Grade B scratch & dent condenser: $2,853.49
Discount included: $50
After discussing with the lady on the phone I went with a Grade A scratch & dent. It saves $149 and claims you pretty much can't see the blemish. This tells me some picky person returned it. Furthermore, my logic is I have a reasonable chance of having my own slightly imperfect unit as of brand new, and I would NOT go through the hassle of sending it back over a minor blemish, so I'll just take the discount. Of course, in theory, a scratch & dent unit (one that was customer rejected) would have additional shipping time and thus could technically sustain more damage (i.e. a Grade A could actually get worse as it is exposed to more handling). I decided Grade B (which is also probably fine) was slightly more risky (considering that my original condenser in the great room did fail after a year and was a scratch & dent).
Ordered from Amazon:
- DiversiTech QSMS1801 18" mini-split stand. The width of the adjustable arms falls 0.1" short on paper but I am taking a leap that I can make this work.
- 50 feet of 10/2 cable. I decided to splurge and go with 10 ga for less cable losses. The manual said 12 min and 10 ideal. This was $79 on Amazon but Home Depot for the exact same thing is $139. How about that?
Total from Amazon OTD: $403.80 (the stand is expensive)
Ordered from Home Depot:
- 25A 240V breaker. I could have done a 20A but with 10ga I may as well run the max specified in the manual which is 25A. Home Depot does not stock the 25A in the store so I just ordered it. This was CHEAPER than Amazon this time.
Total for Home Depot: $20.19
Total cost for what I have ordered so far: $3,414.75
I will still have some misc costs mostly associated with finalizing the stand (basically how I choose to level the ground) as well as the final gutter design. These costs will be relatively minimal.
Looks like there is a 30% federal tax credit against the whole project that I MAY be able to claim (depends on how picky they are with the DIY nature of this job), plus a RI Energy discount of $225. The thing I will need to remember is I think the first one is claimed through taxes when I do my 2023 taxes. The utility one is claimed basically immediately, or within 90 days. I blew this on my first unit so I will try not to repeat that mistake. That would theoretically bring the project cost down to $2,165.33, a savings of $1,249.42 which is significant. We'll see how it goes.