Mercedes for Ed?

[kevm14]

I know, what a world.

Ed mentioned he is afraid of air suspension. This is reasonable. Although in practice I have really not had any trouble with air components across 3 vehicles and 42k total driven miles - I had more trouble with the rear leveling on my STS. In reality you aren't going to have repeated air suspension failures, if you are using quality components and also do the diagnostic process correctly (i.e. replace the thing that was actually failed). I think my S550 is on original air everything. It is probably coming up on the end of life for some components but there is no evidence of that based on the way it drives. But I'm saying you address the issue if/when it occurs and move on. If you have to do an expensive strut or air bag every 80-120k, is that really a big deal? Considering the cool stuff it does (particularly the 4 corner systems)?

It also helps to buy a "good" example but sometimes that is hard to determine. Probably avoid the cheapest thing on FBM.

Models to consider (prices are quick Auto Trader scans as of 6/17, dealer pricing):
- W211 03-06 E500 Wagon - available in 4Matic as well. M113 V8, about 300 hp from a 5L SOHC V8 with 3 valves per cylinder and 16 plugs. 5-speed auto with 4Matic and the 722.9 was available in RWD at some point (04? 05?) though I would not recommend an early 722.9. So basically I'm saying stick to the 4Matic. Unless it's really old (like an 03) where even in RWD it is still running the 722.6. They also made sedans obviously but the wagon is more interesting. $5-10k for these, which I realize is a range.

- W211 07-09 E550 sedan. There was no E550 wagon in the US, sadly. The W211 got a minor facelift for the 2007 model year. Comes in RWD or 4Matic flavors. M273 (382 hp and 391 lb-ft from 5.5L, DOHC, variable valve timing and variable intake manifold geometry, quickly becoming its own legend as the M113 slowly fades away, last of the port injected V8s). Performance would be squarely between my S550 and Adam's CLK550, because physics. Same deal as above, RWD is 722.9 and 4Matic is 722.6. So no real Achilles heel with either drivetrain, especially if you err towards a later RWD/722.9 (like 08-09 ish). $6-15k for these, really wide range.

- R-class. Yeah now here's an oddball. But there is a video where the guy makes a solid case for it. Earlier models were available as an R500 with the M113. Later they were V6 only, either M272 or diesel. A facelifted M272 example would check a lot of boxes, but isn't going to win any drag races. It is probably adequate and nothing more. Long doors. I dunno, these are kind of interesting. Tons of room, third row, rides like an S-class. I hear good things. I don't know about their transmissions but the possibilities are the same as above - I just don't know when any switchover occurred. I think the R500 was all 722.9 but this is an X164-based platform so it might not use the S-class integrated transfer case. More research needed. R500: $4-7k, all around 2006 it seems. R350 gas, $6-12k. R350 diesel: $12k. There was an early R320 but I just count that as too old/slow.

Bonus R-class video: https://youtu.be/iU7gApOHT1E?si=uuXzI2pFeo2IFLRf

- W212 E550? Like a 10-11 basically, because beyond that you are in early M278 territory and I just can't recommend that. But the 10-11 is still the M273, would would be at the end of its run there. They seemed to split up into Sport and Luxury trims. Sport trims had 18s and more sporty "tuning" and Luxury rode on 17s with more comfort "tuning." These would all be 722.9, and later ones at that. Possibly even the A89 update with thinner fluid (ATF134FE they call it, or 236.15 spec). They finally gave these a 722.9 4Matic system which inherits some of the design/longevity concerns but I wonder if by 10-11 this was more resolved? Unclear. At this stage I'd steer you more toward a RWD to avoid the 722.9 AWD system. But we can chat about this. These will be a touch slower due to being a bit heavier with the same engine as the previous gen. These are a LOT more updated, if you like that. Audio systems are much improved - 610 watts. There is the rear subframe rust issue (covered under warranty, still), and also the probably-related rear brake line issue. So be aware of that. Or start with a southern one and protect accordingly. Or find one that had those things replaced. All of these are possibilities. $10-15k range for these.

There were AMG versions of all of these things which were way faster and are going to be several times more. E55, E63, R63.

Engine notes: M112 is the V6 version of the M113. M272 is the V6 version of the M273.

If this has any chance of being a rebound car for the Roadmaster, you should know the W211 feels like the 90s, in only good ways. I do miss that about my E55. Airy greenhouse and really the feel is kind of 90s Mercedes quality rather than just tech-laden.

The W212 is considerably more modern and updated and has some benefits as a result. A W212 despite being more techy probably has the more trouble-free electrical stuff.

I believe every vehicle listed above has 4 corner AIRMATIC. The wagons and R-class MIGHT have rear air only (like on certain models/trims) but not sure how common that was in the US.

Anyway, all I really want to do was post this somewhere: https://rebuildmastertech.com/

Here are some RWD W211 sedan suspension parts: https://rebuildmastertech.com/mercedes- ... -airmatic/

And here are some 4Matic wagon parts: https://rebuildmastertech.com/mercedes- ... -airmatic/

Not bad really. Can also check Rockauto which often carries real Bilsteins for "reasonable" money. The dealer, even discounted, is probably more, but you'd want to check them, too. FCP Euro is pricing themselves out of the market on many things lately but they still exist.

[kevm14]

I guess I can update this with new information.

First, Ed has indicated that the R-class is probably not the direction he'd go. Fine with me. We'll stick to E-class.

W211 pre-facelift consideration: the 03-06 W211 all have the SBC brake system. Sensotronic Brake Control or something (it's not Small Block Chevy). This is still under extended warranty but it's a factor. I want to say it is a 25 year warranty, unlimited miles.

So given this information, I am honing in on like a 2008-2009 E550 RWD as perhaps the optimal pick. I guess I wouldn't rule out an 07 that has a later engine serial number (just like my S550 does), though you still get the inferior 2 disc torque converter clutch. I don't know exactly when they updated this but I know Adam's 09 CLK550 has the updated one. I think this car probably strikes the best balance among price, reliability, and performance.

The chassis setup on these is pretty relaxed but I assume Ed likes that anyway. My E55 was more taut but it was still really more of a cruiser than a canyon carver. I made that trade-off deliberately, knowing that I was giving up some chassis agility from the CTS-V.

I have the info in Adam's thread on the foibles of 4Matic. I guess I can copy and paste.

Let me try some pros/cons, with a note that this really only applies to E550s in the context of this thread:
4Matic pros
- Extra traction in all conditions and the more slippery the surface, the greater the advantage. When the car has enough thrust to run a low to mid 13, this isn't just a feature for driving in 5" of snow.
- Negligible performance penalty. 4Matic on car 722.9 applications adds maybe 150 lbs and from what I gather, the performance difference is not noticeable. On this same bullet, I'll capture that I don't think there is really a measurable fuel economy penalty.
- You won't have to look too hard to find an E550 4Matic, at least in the northeast

4Matic cons
- There is more stuff under there. Front driveshaft, front diff, front axles. 4Matic is known to make engine mounts harder to change, for example. But mostly I think we're talking about having to pull one or both front axles, not the diff.
- Reliability. There ARE some known issues that you'd be exposed to such as: diff seal leaks, axle boot failure, transfer case gear bearing or U-joint failure. The transfer case is pretty integrated into the rear of the transmission case (though you CAN take it apart). Rather than a chain, it uses a planetary gear based coupling and that part is fine, maybe even an advantage. The problem is the output pinion thing for the front driveshaft can have bearing issues which, if ignored, will probably ruin the transmission. Also, there is a U-joint but the U-joint is not externally serviceable, and is integrated into the output pinion. It's quite a job to do on car and it's not clear if it's even possible in ALL applications. This seems to be the Achilles heel of the 722.9 4Matic with integrated transfer case. You can check for play by grabbing the front driveshaft at the transmission side and wiggling it. You can also just listen for terrible NVH.

If you didn't care about AWD in the first place, exposure to the last bullet seems like a deal breaker right away. But, if you stumbled upon a well-priced, good condition E550 with 4Matic, it's something to know about.

I haven't had any issues relating to 4Matic on my two vehicles that have it, unless you count doing a right front inner CV boot. It was an inexpensive repair.

Finding a RWD car also sort of builds in the likelihood of less corrosion. I think the W211 does fine for corrosion but they are not impervious. I guess I could post some examples for fun. Also, if you were willing to run the Saab in the salt that would pretty much mean no need for 4Matic. However, you may have to travel a distance for it.

[kevm14]

Here is comp #1.
https://vermont.craigslist.org/cto/d/mi ... 54350.html

Plate to vin reveals that this was really a CA car, and also gives us the VIN for options check: https://www.vindecoderz.com/EN/check-lo ... B4AA123129

Pretty good! Key features include:
- Keyless go
- Rear power shade
- Heated/cooled seats
- AMG sport package
- Premium H/K audio (the 610 watt one that I have - it pounds)
- Iridium silver - same as all of mine.
- Rear view camera but was this mandated by this point? I forget. I don't think you'll get that in any W211.
- Fancy airbag locations (pelvis, knee)
- Real TPMS not that lame kind that Adam's CLK has
- Regular sunroof (as opposed to the more complicated and heavy panoramic one though mine works just fine)
- Auto high beams
- Bi-xenon headlights with active curve AND cornering illumination. These should be quite decent.
- Heated windshield washer fluid, just like my S550.
- Power open/close trunk. Mine works fine but if it fails it's still a regular trunk.

Here are the OEM numbers for suspension:
Front left strut: A2123203138
Front right strut: A2123203238
Rear left shock: A2123201530
Rear right shock: A2123201630
Rear left air spring: A2123203725
Rear right air spring: A2123203825

Looks like the Achilles heel for suspension cost on the W212 is front struts.
In decreasing order of cost:
Front left OEM
https://www.mercedesbenzpartsshop.com/o ... OC1nYXM%3D

MSRP: $1,316 (hang on)
Internet price through Warwick: $900 + core (front right is only $821....)
Arnott unit via Rock Auto: $600
Bought as a kit of 2 via RMT: $559 x 2
PRT brand on Rockauto: $531 for front right and $555 for front left

Rear shocks are $300-400/ea depending on Arnott vs OEM

Rear air springs are $124-593 depending on source/brand.

It's all more pricey than I'd like it to be but I think it's really those front struts that sting the most. This is the curse of Monroe I think. Same issue with my E63. I went with used rear shocks actually. But, on that car, I am saving up (mentally) for new front struts because I think it will be worth it despite the cost.

I have not looked into conversion away from AIRMATIC. This could also be a vector for Ed. To see what those parts cost we can look up E350 parts. They are way cheaper. OE supplier may have been Sachs and the prices of things are more like Adam's CLK550 prices. I would have to poke through EPC to find out what else might be different, though.