So it has come to my attention that there is a 1993ish Volvo 240 wagon for sale. It is a manual transmission with ~160K. According to the owner it needs a set of tires and wheels(?).
So as much as I want a 114hp 4-cyl wagon, what I wouldn't mind is a 260hp V8 wagon that weighs ~3100lbs. How would I have that? I just happen to have a 1994 Caprice with an LT1 and a whole lot of rust as shown here: http://www.kevinallenmoore.com/repair-i ... p?f=6&t=14. It has about the same mileage as the Volvo, but the engine is much more awesomer. Unfortunately, as you can see in the pics, the rust is substantial, compromising at least two of the body mounts and at least one seat belt mount point.
You can probably guess where I am going here. The Caprice has a 4L60E 4-speed automatic which can probably be made to work, but the fact that this is a manual transmission car kind of begs for a T56 or something similar.
What is the forum's opinion about this sort of swap?
Engine Swaps
Re: Engine Swaps
My first thought is the LT1 isn't optimal, not due to power, but weight. The aluminum blocks seem like a better fit (they did make an Al block LT1). But I wonder what the actual difference is. It's probably a very workable solution, even if you have to upgrade the front springs. That old Volvo 4 cylinder is optimized for exactly nothing at all.
4L60-E's go in the woods. But T56's are getting kind of pricey these days. And I've seen more stories where someone buys a used one and has a problem, then says they should have just gotten a rebuilt one from a trusted vendor. Anecdotal and I'd want to bounce that off Mike O'D, I think.
You could also put the 4L60-E in since you have it, to keep the swap costs down. It's not like it wouldn't be any fun. And I know someone who can tune the '8051 in the 94-95 LT1s.
4L60-E's go in the woods. But T56's are getting kind of pricey these days. And I've seen more stories where someone buys a used one and has a problem, then says they should have just gotten a rebuilt one from a trusted vendor. Anecdotal and I'd want to bounce that off Mike O'D, I think.
You could also put the 4L60-E in since you have it, to keep the swap costs down. It's not like it wouldn't be any fun. And I know someone who can tune the '8051 in the 94-95 LT1s.
Re: Engine Swaps
This site seems to have some info and some conversion parts. http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Volvo_200_V-8.html as well as a hilarious name.
Some good pics here too: http://www.warrensweb.com/volvo/index.htm
It seems the easiest way to bolt the engine in is with a custom cross member, which they sell as well as provide dimensions to fabricate. The literature is centered around the TPI305, which only makes the car moderately fast. We could guess at the powertrain weight difference, but even if the resulting car weighed 3500 lbs, that is still 700 lbs lighter than the Caprice.
Challenge (in no particular order)s:
Mounting:
They sell the crossmember, so it seems pretty straight forward. Looking on the internet, some people also to the plates-mounted-to-the-heads-and-block method. The transmission cross member is about the correct location for a 700R4, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Wiring:
The LT1 harness resides mostly under the hood, so that is handy. It would need the Volvo's ignition tied into it. Fuse box for the major engine pieces could also be used from the Caprice (cooling fan etc).
Cooling:
An 80's Corvette radiator fits in the Volvo, may also be able to use the B-body radiator. If not, older GM radiators are cheap. Electric fans should be reusable, but may need slight modifications to mount to a non-B-body radiator. The 9C1 Caprice has remote transmission and engine oil coolers which should be reusable as well.
Drivetrain
Custom driveshaft work will probably be needed to connect everything. I also have to wonder about the strength of stock Volvo rear axle. This swap would be about doubling the torque.
Fuel:
The Volvo is fuel injected, so that solve some problems. Could probably adapt the lines to feed the LT1 fuel rails. I would need to check pressure/flow specs on the Volvo fuel pump.
Ice Cold A/C:
Don't know if the Volvo even has this. May be able to get some lines made to adapt the GM parts to the Swedish parts, but might have to forgo this entirely. Belt routing could be a challenge as all LT1s came with A/C.
Steering:
Again, custom lines would solve the problem here for power assist. The Volvo does have rack and pinion steering, which is exciting.
Exhaust:
Factory manifolds for simplicity and clearance. The Caprice already has a fancy exhaust on it, which may be able to be modified to fit.
Some good pics here too: http://www.warrensweb.com/volvo/index.htm
It seems the easiest way to bolt the engine in is with a custom cross member, which they sell as well as provide dimensions to fabricate. The literature is centered around the TPI305, which only makes the car moderately fast. We could guess at the powertrain weight difference, but even if the resulting car weighed 3500 lbs, that is still 700 lbs lighter than the Caprice.
Challenge (in no particular order)s:
Mounting:
They sell the crossmember, so it seems pretty straight forward. Looking on the internet, some people also to the plates-mounted-to-the-heads-and-block method. The transmission cross member is about the correct location for a 700R4, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Wiring:
The LT1 harness resides mostly under the hood, so that is handy. It would need the Volvo's ignition tied into it. Fuse box for the major engine pieces could also be used from the Caprice (cooling fan etc).
Cooling:
An 80's Corvette radiator fits in the Volvo, may also be able to use the B-body radiator. If not, older GM radiators are cheap. Electric fans should be reusable, but may need slight modifications to mount to a non-B-body radiator. The 9C1 Caprice has remote transmission and engine oil coolers which should be reusable as well.
Drivetrain
Custom driveshaft work will probably be needed to connect everything. I also have to wonder about the strength of stock Volvo rear axle. This swap would be about doubling the torque.
Fuel:
The Volvo is fuel injected, so that solve some problems. Could probably adapt the lines to feed the LT1 fuel rails. I would need to check pressure/flow specs on the Volvo fuel pump.
Ice Cold A/C:
Don't know if the Volvo even has this. May be able to get some lines made to adapt the GM parts to the Swedish parts, but might have to forgo this entirely. Belt routing could be a challenge as all LT1s came with A/C.
Steering:
Again, custom lines would solve the problem here for power assist. The Volvo does have rack and pinion steering, which is exciting.
Exhaust:
Factory manifolds for simplicity and clearance. The Caprice already has a fancy exhaust on it, which may be able to be modified to fit.
Re: Engine Swaps
Speaking of things I already have, one of those is a 1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS. That might be a better candidate for a Chevy V8 swap for fitment reasons, but not for sleeper-factor reasons. This car was originally slated for a big-block swap. I have a 454 from an '87 Suburban already along with a TH400 and some prepped rectangular port heads for power. It does need substantial reassembly (the engine, not the car).
The Caprice could also provide front spindles and brakes for an upgrade to the G-body car, as well a components for a rear disc swap. Since it is an SS, it already has high-rate springs and very large sway bars.
The Monte Carlo and the Volvo are located out of state along with all the Monte Carlo parts, so that will require a fun towing and hauling weekend to get everything down here either way.
Thoughts?
The Caprice could also provide front spindles and brakes for an upgrade to the G-body car, as well a components for a rear disc swap. Since it is an SS, it already has high-rate springs and very large sway bars.
The Monte Carlo and the Volvo are located out of state along with all the Monte Carlo parts, so that will require a fun towing and hauling weekend to get everything down here either way.
Thoughts?
Re: Engine Swaps
Yup, JTR has been around probably since the late 90s. I think turbo 400s and 4L80-Es were used in Jags so the 350 was an even more obvious choice to get rid of the leaky, terrible Jag engines. They have since expanded to cover other SBC and V8 swaps in other cars. I think we got a VSS sender for my father-in-law's 83 C10 from JTR.Adam wrote:This site seems to have some info and some conversion parts. http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Volvo_200_V-8.html as well as a hilarious name.
Some good pics here too: http://www.warrensweb.com/volvo/index.htm
You think it would gain 400lbs from the swap? That seems high to me.It seems the easiest way to bolt the engine in is with a custom cross member, which they sell as well as provide dimensions to fabricate. The literature is centered around the TPI305, which only makes the car moderately fast. We could guess at the powertrain weight difference, but even if the resulting car weighed 3500 lbs, that is still 700 lbs lighter than the Caprice.
I think you'll find width will be the issue. Those cars are "bricks" but that is deceiving...Cooling:
An 80's Corvette radiator fits in the Volvo, may also be able to use the B-body radiator. If not, older GM radiators are cheap. Electric fans should be reusable, but may need slight modifications to mount to a non-B-body radiator. The 9C1 Caprice has remote transmission and engine oil coolers which should be reusable as well.
If you plan to keep stock-ish traction levels, and especially if you run an auto, I think you may find that the stock rear end will hold up fine. Not that a stock Volvo could spin the tires, but even if it could, do you think it would blow up the rear end? I don't. It's when you add weight/traction that it becomes a problem. 1st gear is a huge torque multiplyer, but beyond a certain amount of torque, you just lose traction. And in the higher gears, you aren't putting nearly as much torque into it (and even if you did, there is still traction required - traction limited torque in 1st is no different than any other gear, to the parts aft of the trans).Drivetrain
Custom driveshaft work will probably be needed to connect everything. I also have to wonder about the strength of stock Volvo rear axle. This swap would be about doubling the torque.
I'm sure this will have to be upgraded. You may have to upgrade more than the pump.Fuel:
The Volvo is fuel injected, so that solve some problems. Could probably adapt the lines to feed the LT1 fuel rails. I would need to check pressure/flow specs on the Volvo fuel pump.
Well there are F-body non-A/C LT1 stuff (1LE comes to mind). My father-in-law's 93 940 turbo uses what looks like GM A/C parts, or at least the receiver/dryer. incidentally I took this with that Samsung camera back in 2007.Ice Cold A/C:
Don't know if the Volvo even has this. May be able to get some lines made to adapt the GM parts to the Swedish parts, but might have to forgo this entirely. Belt routing could be a challenge as all LT1s came with A/C.
The 240 engine bay is fairly small. I want to say the 740/940 is easier but I don't really remember where I saw that.Exhaust:
Factory manifolds for simplicity and clearance. The Caprice already has a fancy exhaust on it, which may be able to be modified to fit.
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Re: Engine Swaps
The Monte will be an easier swap. And it's the more obvious swap. You don't even have to buy a car first.Adam wrote:Speaking of things I already have, one of those is a 1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS. That might be a better candidate for a Chevy V8 swap for fitment reasons, but not for sleeper-factor reasons. This car was originally slated for a big-block swap. I have a 454 from an '87 Suburban already along with a TH400 and some prepped rectangular port heads for power. It does need substantial reassembly (the engine, not the car).
The Caprice could also provide front spindles and brakes for an upgrade to the G-body car, as well a components for a rear disc swap. Since it is an SS, it already has high-rate springs and very large sway bars.
The Monte Carlo and the Volvo are located out of state along with all the Monte Carlo parts, so that will require a fun towing and hauling weekend to get everything down here either way.
Thoughts?
Which would you rather drive?
Re: Engine Swaps
More of an over-estimate. The stock Volvo engine is cast iron also, so it is not light.You think it would gain 400lbs from the swap? That seems high to me.
I think the Monte Carlo would be a more enjoyable car to drive. Not as hilarious as the Volvo, of course. The Monte Carlo was a good driving car back when it had the "monster" 180hp L69. The 3.73:1 rear gears really liven things up.Which would you rather drive?
Re: Engine Swaps
Makes since that these did not come with A/C. Because....race car.1LE
Re: Engine Swaps
Just remember that the Volvo will actually be the faster car. The Monte will probably handle better. That's about it in terms of numbers.
The sleeper factor is huge. Plus the 240 is much more useful. More work. And you still have a dead Monte Carlo.
I say put it in the Monte. You will always be able to buy a cheap 240 and engine swap it.
The sleeper factor is huge. Plus the 240 is much more useful. More work. And you still have a dead Monte Carlo.
I say put it in the Monte. You will always be able to buy a cheap 240 and engine swap it.
Re: Engine Swaps
I could always but the big block in a 240. That might be a recipe for total destruction, though.kevm14 wrote:You will always be able to buy a cheap 240 and engine swap it.