Caprice engine swap?

[kevm14]

I found some old e-mails from mid-2013 where I discovered the Super for the first time. Same reaction I am having now. 4 years earlier, they were like $11k for the cheapest. This must mean something.

I was actually pitching it as a possible Malibu replacement at the time, which is kind of funny. Because that is one of the attractions now - a backup family car for Jamie.

Incidentally that is also when I discovered the CDM Park Ave with that awesome back seat.

Ed, Adam and Bob were part of this thread. This was pre-forum, and you can see the same discussions were happening then, which is one of the reasons I created the forum.

From June 2013:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sed ... rst_drive/
"This is not your father's T-Type Buick, John Heinricy, assures us. GM's high-performance vehicle boss promises that Buick's new "Super" sub-brand will add performance and refinement in equal measure, rather than simply bolting on fat tires, hard shocks, and black trim"
"Heinricy's group expended a lot of effort on the steering and chassis response, tuning the springs, anti-roll bars, and Bilstein monotube dampers with an emphasis on maximizing the average force pressing each tire to the ground when negotiating a corner. (Fitting the Lucerne Super's magnetic-ride shocks was cost prohibitive, as the platform's electrical architecture has never supported that feature.)"

It's still a shitty W-body underneath but this doesn't seem too bad.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 9:36
Subject: Malibu replacement?
I've sort of become obsessed with this. I think it's 2008 only. $11k to get into one now (or a bit less), which isn't too bad.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/th ... per-page-4
Obviously this is clearly the best/nicest W-body. Almost hard to believe it IS a W-body, actually.
Since Adam can't access, I'll paste these specs:
0-to-60-mph time: 5.7 sec
Quarter-mile time: 14.2 @ 101 mph
Also: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/0 ... er-review/

Another review said 157mph, which seems totally possible with 300hp.
Like I said, the Super intrigues me. It seems far superior to the other LS4 W-body offerings (Impala SS and Grand Prix GXP). And it gets the quiet treatment, like the rest of the Buick line.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:11
Subject: RE: Malibu replacement?
From the Wiki page:
"The Super model was the fastest modern production Buick ever built, with a factory top speed of 150 mph (240 km/h), and 0-60 mph times of 5.7 seconds. Only the Buick GNX of the 1980s was given such performance ratings until the Super was introduced."

From August of 2015:

So on the grand scale of automotive excellence, where exactly does being the best W-body put it?

On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Kevin Moore wrote:
http://www.autoblog.com/buy/2008-Buick- ... rt-review/
So it's the best W-body...i guess that's something.
Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Bob Yeterian
Sent: ‎8/‎9/‎2015 8:40 AM
To: Kevin Moore
Subject: Re: 2006 Audi A3 2.0T Premium

Better hope I don't run into one of those on the highway while I am in the Elise


On Aug 9, 2015, at 7:35 AM, Kevin Moore wrote:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/th ... per-page-4

I will say a couple things. I considered this a Malibu replacement because that would be the only way to drop over $10k on it at the time. At present, I'd be looking to spend half that, but on a car for myself (but still fulfilling backup car requirements).
Maybe most importantly, 4 years later, I am just as excited about the car. I wish I could drive one but that will be very difficult. I have driven a GXP so I have a pretty good idea how the Super will drive: better.

[kevm14]

Here you go: https://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/ctd/5964970802.html

Seems to have some good info on their website.

http://www.dealsonwheelsnj.com/detail-2 ... craigslist

I am a little annoyed that the "Free" Carfax doesn't seem to be. Could be some good stuff in there. I could contact them and see if they can get that for me.

Based on the 4 available options, this seems to have the sunroof, as I expected most would have.

Some random tidbits:

•Driver Confidence Package, includes (UG1) Universal Home Remote, (DD8) inside rearview auto-dimming mirror, (DK2) outside heated power mirrors, (AG2) 6-way power front passenger seat adjuster, (UD7) Ultrasonic Rear Parking Assist and (TR0) rear reading lights

•EPA Classification : Mid-Size
•Base Curb Weight (lbs) : 3770

I think the Impala just squeaks into the fullsize car class, which is based on interior volume. This is right on the edge so about the largest EPA mid-size you can get, FWIW. EDIT: EPA fullsize is 120 cu-ft interior + cargo. Impala squeaks by with 123. Buick and the Pontiac do not.

3,770 lbs with 300 hp and all the toys could be worse I suppose. I mean it's a little lighter than my CTS-V.

•SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM : 300 @ 5600
•SAE Net Torque @ RPM : 323 @ 4000

The original VQ30DE in the 4th gen maxima made its peaks at 5600 and 4000, with a little more torque than HP. It's not the most thrilling but provides plenty of practical power in normal RPM ranges.

•First Gear Ratio (:1) : 2.92
•Second Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.56
•Third Gear Ratio (:1) : 1.00
•Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) : 0.70
•Reverse Ratio (:1) : 2.38
•Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) : 2.93
•Cold Cranking Amps @ 0° F (Primary) : 680
•Maximum Alternator Capacity (amps) : 102

102 amp alt? That's weak. I could check Rockauto.

Trans ratios are the same as the 700R4/4L60E except 1st and 2nd are just a little taller. Not much.

•Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Front (in) : 1.26
•Stabilizer Bar Diameter - Rear (in) : .76
•Steering Type : Pwr Rack & Pinion
•Steering Ratio (:1), Overall : 13.3
•Turning Diameter - Curb to Curb (ft) : 38.1

Specs. 13.3 steering ratio is reasonably quick actually.

•Front Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 11.7 x 1.26
•Rear Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 10.6 x 0.55

Uh, these are upgraded brakes? These are smaller than B-body brakes. I realize this is a lighter car, but it is also quicker and faster. I could check Rockauto to confirm but I expected bigger. This reminds me of 4th gen F-body and 0.55" rear thickness might not even be vented. That's pathetic.

•Fog lamps, front halogen with projector technology
•Daytime running lamps, switchable
•Headlamps, halogen composite with Twilight Sentinel and flash-to-pass feature

So no HIDs. But projector fog lights...that's something I guess.

•Audio system, AM/FM stereo with CD/MP3 player, seek-and-scan, digital clock, speed-compensated volume and TheftLock. Includes (U88) Concert Sound III 9-speaker system
•Audio system feature, Concert Sound III 9-speaker system with 2 subwoofers and amplifier; rear subwoofers include coaxial mid-range speakers

Ooh, 2 subwoofers. That's sweet. I am sure it would be fine for me.

•Seats, front bucket, includes 6-way power driver seat adjuster, 2-way manual front passenger seat adjuster with fore/aft controls, outboard head restraints, front seatback map pockets and rear armrest with dual cup holders

WTF? Manual regular 2 way front passenger seat? That can't be right...

•Seat adjuster, front passenger 6-way power

Oh. The way these are listed is really weird. Seems it lists like the standard feature and then lists the option which may supersede the standard feature. So you have to read everything.

•Personalization features, includes driver memory, 2 specific Remote Keyless Entry FOB controls for the driver identification greeting, audio system settings, station presets, content theft, automatic door locks, activation verification, perimeter lighting, delayed locking and (UD7) Rear Parking Assist (if equipped)
•Remote vehicle starter system

More features.

•Air bags, frontal, driver and right front passenger and side head curtain for 1st and 2nd row outboard passengers (Head curtain side air bags are designed to help reduce risk of head and neck injuries to front and rear seat occupants on the near side of certain side-impact collisions

I think this is the same airbag locations as my CTS-V and I assume the SRX.

[bill25]

Not great condition but super cheap Roadmaster:

https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/5980287342.html

Might need transmission, or might need a $100 drain/flush.

[bill25]

Here's a Caprice with style for $1,200!

https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/6008482387.html

[kevm14]

•Maximum Alternator Capacity (amps) : 102

102 amp alt? That's weak. I could check Rockauto.

RockAuto seems to suggest 135A. That is more like it. I guess this list, while pretty comprehensive, isn't 100% accurate. I will check the brakes next because that has to be wrong.

[kevm14]

•Front Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 11.7 x 1.26
•Rear Brake Rotor Diam x Thickness (in) : 10.6 x 0.55

Uh, these are upgraded brakes? These are smaller than B-body brakes. I realize this is a lighter car, but it is also quicker and faster. I could check Rockauto to confirm but I expected bigger. This reminds me of 4th gen F-body and 0.55" rear thickness might not even be vented. That's pathetic.

Ok - these are the stock brakes, like on the base engines (V6s). One of the major mags explained that not only do the LS4 W-body cars get upgraded brakes, the Super got the biggest combo between the SS and GXP, which didn't have identical brakes for whatever reason. I will find it and edit when I do. I am curious.

[kevm14]

One of the major mags explained that not only do the LS4 W-body cars get upgraded brakes, the Super got the biggest combo between the SS and GXP, which didn't have identical brakes for whatever reason. I will find it and edit when I do. I am curious.

It was Motor Trend.

Brakes are supersized by an inch in front and 0.3 inch in back (matching the GXP’s fronts and the SS’s rears).

RockAuto says 12.7" front.
And RockAuto says 10.94" rear. Non-vented. Lame.

This all matches MT's description if you compare to the stock Lacrosse rotor sizes.

The SS does indeed use a smaller front rotor at 11.93" and the same rear rotor, as MT described.

It also uses the same front rotor as the GXP. However, the GXP got 12" vented rear discs!! So the Super doesn't use the biggest brakes of all of the LS4 cars. That would be the GXP. Well the front does a hell of a lot more work on a car like this so whatever. And it also means the SS got some pretty weak brakes.

Why do I care? I like good brakes. And my Caprice has enthusiast-grade brakes, especially with the current combo of pads.

[kevm14]

Not great condition but super cheap Roadmaster:

https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/5980287342.html

Might need transmission, or might need a $100 drain/flush.

Not bad, but a 92 and cloth.

[kevm14]

Here's a Caprice with style for $1,200!

https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/6008482387.html

88. LG4. If it was an 89 at least it would be an L03.

[kevm14]

So tonight Jamie took her first ride in the Ram and I floated this whole situation by her. My simple rationale was to sell the idea of spending a little extra than I normally would on a car for myself (or a lot extra when you compare to the $1200 Roadmasters I was looking at) because it could be a genuine backup family car in addition to a daily driver for myself that I would enjoy.

We have some other expenses and she reminded me I would also need to sell the Ranger first. But not a bad reception all things considered. We didn't really get into what the car actually was because she doesn't really care. I am reasonably confident she'd be fine with it, and fine driving it.

One thing I did mention was that I would still like to replace my Caprice with a clean B-body (like a Roadmaster) but the whole Super thing is probably something I'd actually do first.