M/T: Tested: 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio vs.

[kevm14]

Yea, impressive except for Alfa. QF comes with really soft track rubber so expect to replace the tires after 3,000 miles The treadwear rating on P Zero Corsa is 60... Michelin PSS is 300

Stupid cheating Italians. This is their gig for sure.

[bill25]

The way I see it, if a car company offers the tire as an option from the dealer, they should have the right to send it to be tested with those tires.

I will say that the magazines should have cost of ownership in the criteria, and if these performance tires are only good for 2000 miles and cost 10K, that should be a factor in the comparison.

[kevm14]

It doesn't quite sit well. First, this isn't a dedicated track car. In fact the other cars all come with the ideal street performance tire. It's not like they all come with different tires with a variety of treadwear ratings. Same complaint with Sport Cup 2s on the Focus RS. Those tires make sense on a top spec Z06.

[kevm14]

M/T video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WGAU7aFMFwQ

This was pretty good. The ATS-V did well.

Print version of the video: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-rom ... 3869BCFF57

They went from 4th through 1st place. I guess I didn't remember it from the video but the ATS-V placed third.

I was struck by this quote from the AMG section:

The AMG is impressive in the corners, beating everything but the Cadillac in our handling tests. Unfortunately, the experience doesn’t back up the numbers—the C63 feels like an unwilling participant in the sport-sedan game. Its steering turns rubbery as the g-forces rise, and its brake pedal becomes less responsive when the carbon-ceramic front (and steel rear) brakes heat up.

So the ATS-V is the best handler, without even reading the rest of the article. I told you it did well.

The AMG does one niche really well, better than the other cars: if you like a good powertrain and interior more than anything else, the AMG is your car.

The ATS-V is the chassis car.

When you reach the ATS’ cornering limit, its front tires lose grip first. In normal cars, this understeer means the fun is over. In the ATS-V, however, you can simply add more lock to the steering wheel. In response, the car tightens its line. That yaw means the rear wheels are responding to steering inputs at the front. It’s…Dynamagic!

My CTS-V feels a little like this, but probably nowhere to the extent of the ATS-V.

The results are clear: with tires no more aggressive than the other cars’, the ATS-V slaughters its competitors with 1.03 g of steady-state cornering grip and a staggering 23.7-second figure-eight performance. That’s not only 0.3 second quicker than the next-best Mercedes, but the list of supercars the Caddy beats is embarrassingly long

The M3 really doesn't sound that good. If the ATS-V had the LT1, it definitely would have placed at least 2nd.

[kevm14]

It doesn't quite sit well. First, this isn't a dedicated track car. In fact the other cars all come with the ideal street performance tire. It's not like they all come with different tires with a variety of treadwear ratings. Same complaint with Sport Cup 2s on the Focus RS. Those tires make sense on a top spec Z06.

Yeah I think I am right about this.

Exhibit A:

On track, the Alfa demonstrates athleticism nearing the Cadillac’s but manages an even quicker lap time.

Exhibit B:

Aided by hyperaggressive 60-tread-wear Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires

60?! Come on now. Cheater tires when everyone else is running 300 treadwear Michelin PSS.

Still, the chassis on the Alfa does sound very good. I am not saying it is bad and only propped up by 60 treadwear tires.

I know numbers aren't everything but literally all of the numbers are average for the group despite these tires. Does make you wonder how many of the superlatives about the chassis are due to the tires.

[kevm14]

It doesn't matter though, because:

In stop-and-go traffic, of course, you can catch the engine asleep. It’s here that you also notice the Giulia’s biggest flaw—it is impossible to come to a smooth, slow stop. To blame are two things: one, a by-wire braking system that’s not always linear in its response and two, a clutch that decouples the transmission right as the car is about to come to a full stop. Fiat-Chrysler says the by-wire system allows the brakes to react more quickly to inputs and cycle more quickly under ABS, but the Quadrifoglio’s braking distances were midpack despite its grippy tires. So we see no benefit from using the by-wire system.

What we do see is added complexity on an Italian car. That makes us nervous. We happily awarded the Giulia first place, experiencing no reliability issues at all with the two test cars we abused. Then, a few weeks later, a different Giulia died in traffic, leaving one of our senior staffers blocking the road until the flatbed arrived. And then yet another test car showed off its Italian heritage by stalling randomly during a photo shoot.

Apparently this Giulia might live up to Alfa’s love-it-but-don’t-trust-it reputation after all. Or it could just be early-build teething problems from an all-new platform. We still think it’s the best compact sport sedan you can buy, even if it winds up breaking your heart. Better to have loved and been towed home than to have never loved at all.

To me it's AMG for interior/engine or ATS-V for chassis.

[kevm14]

ATS-V was cheapest base, and especially cheapest as tested. As-tested was by a significant amount. The ATS-V also is available with a 6-speed. If you credit the Alfa for being awesome to drive with average test numbers, then you also have to credit the ATS-V the same way (6-speed is part of the experience).

I know this is opinion but I think the ATS-V holds its own just fine as far as styling goes. I think it looks great.

[kevm14]

This commenter says it best:

I would buy the 2017 Cadillac ATS-V... in 2023.

[kevm14]

Exhibit B:

Aided by hyperaggressive 60-tread-wear Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires

60?! Come on now. Cheater tires when everyone else is running 300 treadwear Michelin PSS.

Eh, I didn't realize I already "revealed" that the tires on the Alfa are 60 treadwear. My incredulity is still relevant, however.

[kevm14]

The ATS-V is the chassis car.

When you reach the ATS’ cornering limit, its front tires lose grip first. In normal cars, this understeer means the fun is over. In the ATS-V, however, you can simply add more lock to the steering wheel. In response, the car tightens its line. That yaw means the rear wheels are responding to steering inputs at the front. It’s…Dynamagic!

My CTS-V feels a little like this, but probably nowhere to the extent of the ATS-V.

The results are clear: with tires no more aggressive than the other cars’, the ATS-V slaughters its competitors with 1.03 g of steady-state cornering grip and a staggering 23.7-second figure-eight performance. That’s not only 0.3 second quicker than the next-best Mercedes, but the list of supercars the Caddy beats is embarrassingly long

I should also point out that the ATS is riding on a platform that came out for MY2013. The fact that any of these words are said about it in 2017 against these cars is a high accomplishment.