M/T: Styling Size-Up: 2017 Honda Civic Type R vs.

[kevm14]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/styling- ... 8E2E22C22A

I don't really care about styling comparisons, though I find the Type R to look pretty ricey. I would like to see a real comparison with these four vehicles though. If this segment is truly experiencing revitalization then I think GM needs to get serious. I don't care about any of these cars so I don't care about the segment. Though I have said my pick would be the Golf R. On paper. In reality I'd never buy a VW, or any of the others.

[bill25]

This is funny. If the Cobalt SS looked like the Civic, it would be all over. I couldn't be seen in real life in that thing. Of the 4, the GTI looks the best from the outside. It is also pretty good as far as the interior goes. Drivetrain goes to the Focus RS though for me. High HP FWD is why I passed on the MazdaSpeed3 so I wouldn't even consider the Civic. Out of the 4 the RS is my pick. I am not a fan of the exterior, but I actually like the interior, and the drivetrain is awesome. 350 HP is nothing to sneeze at in a little car like this.

[Bob]

I wish the Civic Type R's styling was more along the lines of the classic Type Rs of the 90s with just a few subtle cues from the outside. As it stands now, it looks ridiculous and I don't think I could be taken seriously driving it to work as a professional. The Golf R is probably the only car that passes that test.

[Bob]

I'm going to make a bold prediction: the new Civic Type R will be as fast or faster from a roll than the Focus RS due to lower weight and FWD (lower parasitic power loss). Your average car enthusiast will never accept this fact; however. It will be just as frustrating as Honda vs DSM was for me in the early 2000s.

[kevm14]

It is very rare that the 0-30 is a critical race, because if I even happen to be at a light where I know something is about to go down, chances are the race will not end at 30mph. Being at that light is incredibly rare.

Perhaps just as importantly, most people aren't going to drive their AWD car like a magazine test, so they will more or less do a low rpm clutch slip, which is exactly how you'd launch the Civic anyway.

[kevm14]

And all we're really saying is the Civic Type R may trap higher than 105, which would mean it is faster realistically.

[Bob]

I don't think trapping 105 is out of the question with 300 HP and a rumored weight around 3000 lbs. Remember when 300 HP was a lot when cars used to weigh around 3000 lbs on average?

[kevm14]

Well like I said, if Honda shakes up the segment, I'd like to see GM with an offering. It seemed dead a few short years ago with the retiring Evo and happily niche STI. I guess the Focus RS already shook up the segment, but if I see a second one that tops it in some ways, that is more solid evidence imo.

Actually Honda would be the only one with a real hot hatch. Not some overweight AWD nonsense. A real sport compact. A successor to the RSX Type S or, really, the ITR. I think light weight is so important in this segment to do it right. If you are 3,500 lbs, you just totally failed.

[bill25]

I do think price should be in the discussion. The biggest problem to me with the RS is that for the same price you can get a Camaro SS. It isn't that the RS is bad, it is more that at that price point you can get serious performance, not just a "quick little car". These should be aiming at the high 20's/very low 30's price point. The RS tested in MT was over 40K.

[bill25]

If Chevy were to do something, they should repeat the Z24 from the 80's (Huge surprise that I would say that...). Throw the NA V6 from the Camaro in there instead of some turbo crap. The current Cruze gets 153/177 HP/Torque. Give it the 3.6 L V6 making 335 hp and FE3 like the V6 1LE Camaro. It will sound better than the competition, and it will have legitimate stats without turbo lag and complexity. Make it available in sedan and maybe coupe, not just "hot hatch". Done. Then Chevy might actually sell a car I might want as a daily driver... Wow.