M/T: Styling Size-Up: 2017 Honda Civic Type R vs.

[kevm14]

I do think price should be in the discussion. The biggest problem to me with the RS is that for the same price you can get a Camaro SS. It isn't that the RS is bad, it is more that at that price point you can get serious performance, not just a "quick little car". These should be aiming at the high 20's/very low 30's price point. The RS tested in MT was over 40K.

Exactly. That role is really fulfilled by something like the Focus ST. 2017 base MSRP for an ST is $25,400 (I don't know about transaction prices). You get 252 hp which pulls the 3,248 lb ST through the 1/4 mile in 14.9 @ 94 mph. I think that's a more compelling package than spending upper 30s or more on something like the RS.

[Bob]

Unlike the RS, transaction prices on the ST are quite a bit lower than MSRP. There are quite a few new ones on Autotrader for around $20k.

[kevm14]

$20k!! There you go.

[Bob]

Two STs for the price of one RS!

[kevm14]

And all we're really saying is the Civic Type R may trap higher than 105, which would mean it is faster realistically.

Well look at that.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/201 ... est-review

Traps an unbelievable 108. 13.5 @ 108 means it will most likely walk the Focus RS in a race. And my CTS-V. Of course a current CTS-V runs 11.6 @ 126 but it also costs a lot more. This at $34k is a pretty damn good attempt at a top of class offering (in a dying class). You are still getting way better performance bang from a used car but that's always true anyway.

This car is seriously good. And seriously ugly. I wouldn't count it out and I also would not expect to run into many of these on the road.

For fun, I looked up the 08 Cobalt SS turbo which did some FWD record breaking itself. 10 short years ago, the car ran a 14.0 @ 102 for $23k and scored very high for driving dynamics. This Type-R is in another league from that, and that car was very good. Pleased to see progress on FWD even if I am not into FWD at all.

The Type-R is 3,1xx which I guess is considered light for what it is today. An 08 Cobalt SS was 2,960 lbs so 150 lbs lighter. For the record, and for good bench racing fun, you could spend $400 on the GM Stage turbo kit, up it to 290 and probably run pretty even with the Type-R at least for most street activities. But again, I already said used is a better performance value than new so I don't think this proves a whole lot, other than everything is relative. Maybe the more significant commentary is the only thing GM can offer against the Type-R is a used Cobalt SS turbo...you could do a lot worse anyway.

[kevm14]

More benchracing specs.

Cobalt SS turbo
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.4 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 24.6 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Braking, 70-0 mph: 162 ft
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g

Civic Type-R
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 21.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Braking, 70-0 mph: 142 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.02 g

300 foot skidpad. I am going to guess you can pull more Gs on a 300 foot skidpad in most cars. So there's that. The Type-R is definitely a generation ahead in terms of both numbers and chassis, which is great. Though that 5-60 is not as different as it should be...

They also got 3 mpg better as tested in the Type-R.

[Bob]

I'm going to make a bold prediction: the new Civic Type R will be as fast or faster from a roll than the Focus RS due to lower weight and FWD (lower parasitic power loss). Your average car enthusiast will never accept this fact; however. It will be just as frustrating as Honda vs DSM was for me in the early 2000s.

Just sayin...