Electric Company EV Purchase Program

[frankbreau]

Anyone seen this yet?

https://www.ripower.org/drivegreen

It's a program run by people's power and light to encourage people to buy electric vehicles. I did some poking around, it's pretty interesting. Pre-negotiated deals on most electric vehicles on the market right now, plus additional discounts for the group buy.

The RI state rebate of $2500 is off the table right now because our state gov can't pass a budget, but I imagine the program will come back later in the year when funding comes back.

If you have the tax liability, 7K federal + 2.5K state + group buy price seems to be a pretty good deal on the bolt, volt, and leaf. The lease deals are equally interesting.

[bill25]

I think I am going to hold off until the Tesla Model 3 is out to see how it is. I considered the leaf since they are "cheap" used (like 10K) but the Model 3 actually looks pretty good, and is 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. When people were saying the MazdaSpeed3 with 256 HP was fast a few years ago, it was 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

To put this in perspective, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds is faster than the 2000 V8 Camaro and Trans Am with about 315 HP. The car with the better battery also has a range of 310 miles.

Here is the article:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/reviews/ ... ar-AAoZTWy

These are actually cheaper than the Bolt too. (Base, which doesn't have the super impressive stats I just listed, but still really good (0-60 in 6 seconds and 220 mile range).

I have officially jumped on the Tesla bandwagon because they are actually making an electric car that looks normal, and even nice, and has pretty good performance. They are also planning to flood the market at 500K cars per year which should go a long way to the used cars being affordable.

[bill25]

It is going to be a little while though. The prepaid people should be getting their Model 3 this year. New people should be able to start buying the Model 3 in 2018.

I also read they are planning a dual engine AWD Model 3 for the future (crazy fast and AWD). Maybe that could replace the Subaru. I would be totally cool with it replacing my Mazda Model3. LOL.

[kevm14]

It is interesting that you suddenly want a car in this class. This is competitive with something like a BMW 3-series. Why not one of those? Reliability you say?

Well, hopefully Tesla has worked these issues out:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... story.html
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-te ... rformance/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... /92712118/

This article explains that the truth comes out when the ownership begins to be less fanboy and more normal people:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... s-tolerant

Owners who are very enthusiastic about their cars, or the service they receive, are less likely to report a problem on the survey, Karesh said.

And the percentage of those enthusiastic owners may be falling compared to the early days, he suggests. The first wave of Tesla customers tended to be early adopters, who were willing to tolerate some glitches, he said.

But as the customer base expands, it brings customers who are less forgiving of reliability issues into the fold.

These customers may also be less invested in the Tesla brand itself, and thus take a less romantic view of Model S ownership.

And for the ultimate LOL:
https://www.tesla.com/careers/job/relia ... lity-35551

Anyway I guess by 2018 you'd have some data available - the amount of potential owners is big enough that if someone really has a sour experience, we should hear about it, I'd think.

[Adam]

This looks interesting. Do they have any $2000 cars yet?

[bill25]

It is interesting that you suddenly want a car in this class. This is competitive with something like a BMW 3-series. Why not one of those? Reliability you say?

It is at the price point of the BMW, but that is about all that is similar.

I always talk about wanting a faster version of my 3. This is basically that. For about the same price of the Focus RS, I can get this. I don't really see it as a new interest. Especially if you add the AWD second engine.

I care far less about luxury interior features, and more about performance, plus the exterior looks like my car, maybe a little better. This seems like a decent daily. I am looking to this to have with the Camaro, not instead of. I am thinking it will replace the Mazda3 down the road.

[kevm14]

I would be shocked if it turns out this provides total vehicle performance better than an equivalently priced ICE car with the 200-300 mile range, with no reliability issues or other downsides. A Camaro SS for $45k or whatever will destroy a Model 3 in performance. Let's wait until we get some real testing on the base car and see how it really stacks up. Throwing a couple 0-60s around isn't really a comprehensive performance analysis.

Anyone want to predict 1/4 mile for the base car? Maybe 14.0 @ 98? A 2013 ATS V6 is between the Model 3 base and extended battery in 0-60 and runs 14.0 @ 102. You can get one of those for under $20k, today, right now. I guess I don't understand.

The Model 3 is the EV version of the mainstream entry level lux segment dominated by the A4 and 3-series and MB C-class. It's even in the name. Model 3. As in 3-series. Not Mazda 3. I don't think this is the "Everyman performance car" that you seem to be making it out to be.

[bill25]

Anyone want to predict 1/4 mile for the base car? Maybe 14.0 @ 98? A 2013 ATS V6 is between the Model 3 base and extended battery in 0-60 and runs 14.0 @ 102. You can get one of those for under $20k, today, right now. I guess I don't understand.

Sure, top speed acceleration will drop off compared to ICE cars, but I think they are gambling that almost nobody cares about 80-110 performance as a percentage of car drivers on the street. That small percentage can buy other cars and not impact Tesla at all. Show me a new car for under 20K that out accelerates 0-60 in 5.1 seconds.

You can definitely get used cars that beat that. We need to see the Model 3 resale/depreciation to compare used.

I would argue that 0-75 is far more important than 0-115 for the street. This car has been said to also handle very well which I value. It will be interesting to see the stats on handling. To me this isn't a high speed track weapon, it is a really fun street daily driver, like the Focus RS or Subaru BRZ/Toyota GT86.

This is a situation where one car doesn't need to be excellent at everything. This sounds like a cool daily though, and if mass production takes off prices should come down.

[kevm14]

I mean if a used long range battery model was half the price of this example ATS V6 then you'd have an argument. But ATSs will be even cheaper at that time so I don't see how that would be possible.

Anyway, the ATS with the basic performance envelope of this Model 3 (the base model of which not even hitting the streets until 2018) has been on the streets since late 2012. So I don't get what the excitement is all about.

You almost seem to be falling for the implied pitch that Tesla = P100D (including phones sticking to the rear seats). That is not what the Model 3 is. The P100D costs $140k.

[bill25]

Some things are wrong here, and you brought up the ATS V6 specifically, so...

2017 Cadillac ATS Sedan V-6
http://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ats

PRICE AS TESTED:
$54,420 (base price: $47,990) - Well within better battery pricing for the Model 3
Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec - half a second slower than the Model 3 with the good battery.

These are todays numbers, not sure what a model from 5 years ago matters...

So the current ATS V6 is not way faster than the Model 3 for less money. Cost is similar, and the ATS is slower. And GM had like 100 extra years to figure it out...

Sure, the ATS might be a little nicer inside, but the Model 3 may handle better. We need the numbers to determine that. I get that this isn't 0-60 in 2.3 seconds Ludacris Mode but it is pretty quick. We are talking daily driver, not drag racer. A test drive might be in order.

Plus, the Model 3 has no exhaust to rot out in New England weather, No radiator to leak and change fluid. No oil changes. It just seems like a lot simpler. I am not sure I understand the hate for this. It isn't some slow stupid looking Prius that isn't fun to drive. The range is over 300 miles. I can't see why for a family with 2 cars, why this couldn't be one of them. If an electric car can have stats this good without mass production driving down costs, you can imagine that the prices for these should come down after a few years of really mass producing these high capacity batteries and motors.