Electric Company EV Purchase Program

[kevm14]

I think you just started making the case for the car in your last paragraph. I can't argue those things - I can only comment on how much those things matter to me and how much I'm willing to pay to get those things. What I was saying before was, if you liked the general foot print and general performance of the Model 3, you could pick up a 2013 ATS V6 for under $20k and have it right now, instead of waiting 7 years for a Model 3 to become affordable. But now you're saying it's more than just performance, which is a different argument. I don't disagree that the electric car has less crap to deal with. But for my buying purposes, it does little good to compare an ATS to a Model 3 brand new because I wouldn't buy them new (also the 2013 is two tenths and two MPH faster anyway, for way less money). And in the case of a future $20k used Model 3, there will probably be a slightly older ATS that does the same thing for, say, $10k. You can substitute other cars for the ATS - it is just an example. I can change some fluids for $10k in savings. Which is why I think it will take a few more generations for this to really do what the promise is.

[kevm14]

2012 Camry V6 runs 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and 1/4 mile in 14.3 @ 101. It is not a sport sedan but the kind of speed that the Model 3 provides is very attainable. I still refuse to use 0-60 because that only compares a max traction launch from a total stop. You will never drive like this. Most times heavy applications of throttle are from a roll. And roll-on acceleration is determined almost exclusively by the 1/4 mile trap speed. The amount of shove you get in the seat when you floor the gas at 20, 40, 60 or 80 mph is determined by trap speed, not 0-60. We don't know trap speed of the Model 3 base (or long range) yet but I'm willing to bet the base is 100 or less. I am not saying this is slow, but I just get a vibe that is like "finally a family sedan that has performance." This is not a new concept. The Model 3 brings some other things to the table like being an affordable, nice driving EV that isn't bad to look at. I'm not sure it will ever be a better value, option for option, through its lifecycle, than an ICE car.

Next up: operating cost math based on $0.17/kWh.

[kevm14]

I don't have Model 3 specs so we'll use the Bolt. I would think the Bolt will be a little more efficient than the 3 but we'll see.

EPA on the Bolt says 28 kWh per 100 miles. Which translates to $4.76/100 miles. $2.30 gets you 1 gallon of 87 right now so that is equivalent to an ICE car getting 48 mpg. So that's pretty good. Nothing a good hybrid couldn't do but it is not a bad argument to say you can have the low operating costs of a Prius combined with actual driving dynamics and performance with the Model 3.

[Bob]

I will say one of the best kept secrets about EV powertrains is that they're satisfying to drive, particularly for commuting where quick bursts of power at low speeds are required. I have spent significant seat time in the Leaf and Volt, as well as brief test drives of the i3 and Model S (P90D). The performance of the Leaf and Volt is pretty unexceptional, but they offer seamless power and good sub-40 MPH acceleration. The i3 was a touch more exciting (I think this is on par with the Volt in a straight line). The P90D was a very nice car to drive and very powerful, even at higher speeds.

[kevm14]

While I've never driven any kind of EV, I fully understand the seamless torque argument. And I don't disagree it is probably satisfying. My only issue is that benchracing often results and I would be annoyed by a future buyer of one of these claiming "oh man, this thing is SO fast, it'll destroy your car, easily." Kinda like LT1 B-body guys back in the day who would have totally scoffed that a 95 Maxima could possibly be competitive. "No way man, this ex-cop car has a Corvette motor. It'll beat your little jap sedan." Meanwhile, all the numbers you'd need to see that it would be a close race are readily available. Of course there is also real world traction, driving conditions and general driver technique that do play a role. But cars today generally aren't super traction challenged except in extreme cases like the severely under-tired Hellcats. Even a FWD Camry that traps 101 is not going to have severe traction problems, at least not on dry pavement. And racing with sub-par traction is not really a thing I recognize - you could take a stock Subaru Legacy and beat a Hellcat to 20 mph if it's pouring out. Who cares?

[bill25]

"oh man, this thing is SO fast, it'll destroy your car, easily."

Isn't this just cars? Who cares? If someone brags about how bad they will beat you, and they lose, they lose, electric or gas. Honda Civic drivers thought they were driving the fastest cars in the world at one point. People still buy Civics after finding out that they aren't...LOL It's ok.

[Bob]

I will say one of the best kept secrets about EV powertrains is that they're satisfying to drive, particularly for commuting where quick bursts of power at low speeds are required. I have spent significant seat time in the Leaf and Volt, as well as brief test drives of the i3 and Model S (P90D). The performance of the Leaf and Volt is pretty unexceptional, but they offer seamless power and good sub-40 MPH acceleration. The i3 was a touch more exciting (I think this is on par with the Bolt in a straight line). The P90D was a very nice car to drive and very powerful, even at higher speeds.