Doug DeMuro: The $100k Lincoln Navigator

[kevm14]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUSv8b-V5I4

Apparently this is Lincoln's first vehicle over $100k. This one is the L, so Escalade ESV competitor.

You can tell they really put some effort into this and in many ways it is better than the Escalade but if GM's experience is any indication, it takes a while for reputations to catch up to reality so I do not see this making a large dent in Escalade sales any time yet.

Overall I think this is a nice looking vehicle and the interior is quite good. What I don't like is the hodgepodge of controls between hard controls and the nav screen. I think it's just clunky.

The tire sidewall is too short and the rear wheel wells are awkwardly empty. And the wheels are ugly.

It has the new Raptor ecoboost V6 at 450 hp and 500 lb-ft which is pretty good output.

The SRX has a few features that he covered such as:
- Power pedals
- Giant sunroof with power shade
- Power third row (raise and lower)
- Heated steering wheel (with a button right on the wheel, not buried in the nav screen)

Overall I think Bill will approve as this is an approach to luxury, not sportiness. In that respect, it checks a lot of boxes. Best Daily score he's ever given.

He said it was quiet but for some reason the engine sounds extremely loud and annoying in this video. I shouldn't be able to hear the engine at all. Maybe it was the way the camera was mounted. Or maybe it should have a real engine.

[bill25]

I think overall Ford/Lincoln did a great job with this. They put out the Continental concept, and it got rave reviews. I think it looks way better than their weird design concept of the MK era stuff, which I really didn't like.

Anyway I think the Continental design scheme is really nice. The interior is also really nice and they came out with those 1000 way seats. The Continental has a great grill with Lincoln logo.

This Navigator is getting all of those cues, which is smart for Lincoln's branding. The interior looks great, the exterior looks sharp and clean, and the grill with the Lincoln logo really looks good. Then to top it off, they can say it has the Raptor drive train. They really took the best of everything they had, and styled this to look like it fits with the new brand style. They are doing a great job rebuilding the brand. Even small details like the lights getting brighter as you get closer to it, and the illuminated logo.

I agree the rims are terrible. Again they were trying to borrow from the new Continental style, but admittedly, failed here.

The biggest reasons this is smart is because they took a chance with a design with the concept Continental. They got great feedback and acted. Then they started to actually produce what was demanded. Now, they rolled up the feedback for what people liked in the Continental and rolled it into the most expensive vehicle they make, and it looks great.

You could say that Cadillac did a similar thing in the early 2000's,(and I would probably agree for the most part) but it was like they did good out of the gate then dwindled into obscurity. Maybe because the quality was not there, maybe the design was more of a fad for the time. Not really sure.

This design seems safer, and more timeless.

I guess we'll see how things go. So far, the Continental looks great, but needs refining to survive based on reviews. Most of the refinement in the reviews is drivetrain stuff. Maybe the Raptor drivetrain is a better/safer bet?

[Bob]

Apparently people are buying them too!

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/ford-is ... -them.html

[kevm14]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/ ... 26B8B6E582

The Lincoln Navigator has always been nice for a full-size body-on-frame SUV, but previous models were clearly derivatives of a Ford product. The same can’t be said about the all-new 2018 model. Yes, it owes its existence to the Ford Expedition it’s based on, but Lincoln’s reliance on the Ford parts bin isn’t nearly as obvious this time around, especially once you step inside.

this build rang up to an eye-popping $100,315. Does it feel like a vehicle that’s worth a hundred grand? Yes. Absolutely.

We already said it in our First Drive review, but I’ll say it again: Lincoln nailed the interior on this SUV. At no point do you feel like you’re in a warmed-over Expedition. The materials and design all communicate that you’re getting into a genuine luxury car.

You can get a Navigator for less than $100,000, but I think it’s best in loaded Black Label form. You really get the sense that this is the best Lincoln has to offer—and it’s awe-inspiring. The Navigator is closer to the level of the smaller Mercedes GLS and Range Rover in terms of quality, and the Lincoln is better in some areas. It’s also arguably a better value, as the Navigator tops out at just over $100,000, while the three-rows from Benz and Land Rover can get well north of that.

So, two ways to look at this. One way is, this is what Cadillac needs to do. But if the Navigator is really only conversation-worthy as a $100k car, is this really the path to success? Like if Cadillac did this, I feel like people would be like "well the Cadillac I can kind of afford is not the same as this one, so it is a bait and switch." Certainly the next Escalade ought to be very good.

It's not like the Escalade is NOT attracting people to show rooms. I am sure it has been doing that for 20 years. The funny thing about the Escalade is, I think for most of its demographic, the most important aspect is the exterior appearance. I.e. the whole point of the Escalade is so people see that you are driving an Escalade. I don't think it was ever intended to be the most luxurious thing on 4 wheels. So in a way Ford is going after a different market with the Navigator. And in terms of exterior appearance, I think the Escalade still looks the part. The Navigator seems a little generic to me. But the interior (on the $100k Black Label) is the whole point of the vehicle. Again, it's a different approach.

So back to GM, if they can do the exterior AND interior, then that is something that should pay off. Or at least offer a trim level with that kind of interior.

[kevm14]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lincoln/ ... 26B8B6E582

I am bothered by the continued emphasis on interiors actually. Maybe that stems from my GM background. But it also bothers me because in a world of generic EV transportation pods, it seems like the interior would be perhaps the very last point of differentiation among vehicles. And emphasizing interior now is sort of like welcoming that future (which I don't want). In a way the Navigator fits the bill. The turbo V6 is also sort of generic compared to a big V8, and again I think the exterior is fairly bland/generic. So it's kind of already there, and that annoys me.

Also this article reads like someone was handed a marketing brochure and then published most of it.

[kevm14]

Bill brought up the point that for luxury cars, the only remaining point of differentiation is the interior. In some ways I agree - you can design and integrate a powertrain of basically whatever horsepower you can dream up. I'd argue that Cadillac tried to differentiate with driving dynamics (chasing the BMW model) with middling results. I mean when Cadillac started their driving dynamics renaissance in 2003, there was plenty of praise to go around. And they actually sold a bunch of first gen CTSs. The second gen was a better car in every possible way but sales declined. The second gen was introduced at the precipice of the great recession. The third gen better still. Sales declined again.

You could also argue that driving dynamics, like power, are good enough for any luxury buyer. Maybe that's why I am frustrated because I don't really buy that or accept that. The CT6 is in another league from the Continental in terms of chassis stuff. But the Continental is a better conventional luxury car and for most people, the steering and handling are more than sufficient.

Aspects of a luxury car (in no particular order):
- Size
- Exterior styling
- Engine (either power or other differentiation from the norm)/performance
- Interior styling/finish/features
- Interior comfort
- Brand cache

For my own preferences, out of the above, the ones I care about the least are: interior styling/finish (I like features) and brand cache. Yet, these are the two problems afflicting Cadillac and critics claim that is their entire problem. Something about that just doesn't sit well with me. Oh well, the entire world disagrees with me I guess.

[kevm14]

GM discounting new Escalades, targeted at 2016 leasee returns out of the Navigator.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac ... D3B3745B43

[kevm14]

I may have missed this article from last fall:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/cadillac ... g-picture/

But no amount of window dressing can disguise the fact that it remains a truck in a tux, obviously related to quotidian Tahoes and Yukons.

That hasn’t stopped it from outselling all of Cadillac’s car lines in the U.S., and by a considerable margin at that. Combined Escalade and Escalade ESV sales through August this year made it the brand’s No. 2 model line—only behind the much less expensive XT5 crossover. As the priciest Cadillac you can buy, the Escalade is also hugely profitable. Most of the $24,000 to $40,000 price premium the Escalade commands over a fully loaded Tahoe is pure gravy. GM’s bean counters love this thing.

The new Escalade will get independent rear suspension and air springs that will deliver significant improvements in ride quality and overall refinement.

Ditching the current model’s heavy, cumbersome live axle will also enable GM designers to lower the floor at the rear, allowing—at last—decent legroom for third-row passengers. GM’s 420-hp, 460-lb-ft 6.2-liter V-8 will remain the workhorse engine, but Cadillac will likely also offer a supercharged V-8 similar to that used in the CTS-V, tuned to deliver more than 600 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque. Both engines will drive through the new 10-speed automatic jointly developed by GM and Ford. (It’s still odd to hear that, I know.)

The next Escalade should be the best version ever, though it remains to be seen how thoroughly Cadillac will sweat the details.

Regardless, the next Escalade will be a stopgap. No matter how well dressed or how well engineered, a body-on-frame truck simply cannot deliver the performance, ride, handling, quietness, interior room, and energy efficiency customers outside North America will demand if they are seeking a legitimate alternative to a full-size Range Rover or Mercedes-Benz GLS.

In the meantime, Cadillac is racing to determine exactly what sort of vehicle can finally redefine one of America’s great luxury brands in the 21st century. This much is clear: With the market for large sedans collapsing, it will be a unibody crossover of some kind. Tougher emissions rules mean it will likely be available with a high-performance hybrid powertrain or even be fully electric drive from the get-go. To make it happen, though, Cadillac needs its truck in a tux to keep the cash registers ringing well into the 2020s.

For what it's worth, looking at the interior shots there, I don't think the current Escalade interior is bad. But I may also say it is more of a $50k vehicle interior, not a $100k one. I don't know if the Platinum trim is pictured.