Caprice PPV

[Adam]

I still can't see spending $10k on any car regardless of what you get, but I'm broken inside.

[kevm14]

Yeah all at once back in 2010 I went from $4200 being my most expensive car to date (95 Camaro Z28 in 2004) to $15,400 (05 CTS-V in 2010 - but that was a 5 year old CTS-V that I bought at 29, that was very exciting and I still love it even if I barely use it). Haven't spent that much since but Jamie's SRX was close at like $13,900 after trade in 2015...so I've bought 2 used cars at 5 figures and, unlike with Ed's Saab, do not feel like I was burned in any way, nor do I have regrets. And no loans required. Like I always say - if you don't feel comfortable to put up cash for the car, but can afford the payment, you can't actually afford it. If you need to keep the cash on hand "just in case" then it isn't really disposable income.

You don't feel like you are at a point where $10k doesn't hurt the wallet nearly as much as it used to? I mean, not to get into a whole debate on the topic, but a conservative approach where you are thinking "I am going to retire at 58 and every dollar I spend today will defer that" just means, in my opinion, misery up to retirement and then, guess what, probably misery beyond that because you retired so early that you will need to bottom out your living expenses just to live day to day. So that car you forewent in your working life...you will also have to forgo it as a retiree. That sounds awful. Where's the reward? If you are going to work into your 60s like I am, you probably have $10k to spend today on a car that you like. And you'll still be doing a LOT better than most folks who finance a $38k vehicle (when they really should be in an $8k car) and still think they are going to somehow retire early (or at all). I don't think buying a $10k used car is automatically stupid and irresponsible.

But I digress....everyone's goals are different. I just think that one is kind of stupid.

[Adam]

It's not that I couldn't spend $10k on a car, it's that why would I? There's plenty of interesting cars that can be had for just a couple grand (or even free). Plus, when you're buying cheap cars, if it turns out to be a nightmare you haven't lost a significant amount of money.

[kevm14]

Yeah I know. But things really do improve as you spend more money. I am not saying reliability improves (though it might).

The other nice thing about more expensive used cars (how can I put you in a used car today?), which I pretty much explained above, is that they are more likely to come (as designed) with performance, features, comfort, etc. that you want. Modifying is fun for a very specific kind of car but the vast majority of the time it is nice to enjoy something bone stock that is actually a nice package. That's why I like my STS. I have to believe there are interesting things between $1k and $10k. Now certain cars benefit from some aftermarket parts, but those are specific cases, not general cases. Like with a CTS-V, you are better served if you find one that has a few things done, like aftermarket poly engine mounts, for example (I did that to mine).

Oh my god. Look at this.
05 CTS-V. In Tampa, FL. $8k. Guess the miles.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

Did you guess? Wrong. 200k? Pfft, seen that. 250k? Never seen that but....nope, higher. 300k??? Nope, higher. Holy shit. 350k???? Nope, try almost 400k. 391k. Yay, my car is going to run forever!!

2005 CTSV 5.7 v8,manual 6spd,navigation system, sunroof, power heated seats, tilt wheel, power mirrors, cold a/c, 391000 Hwy miles, runs and drives great. Needs nothing $8000.00

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Unfortunately he is going to find that $8k is still way too high. This could go for like....$6k or something ridiculous. Doubt it is on the original transmission, just cause I guess the synchros get worn out after a while. Probably had a bunch of other parts. I would love to see the service history.
VIN: 1G6DN56S750144843

[kevm14]

$10k even buys this:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

And if 166k is still too much (apparently it is not), there is this for $10,900:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... lCode1=CTS

Finally, one that looks unmolested. Only 94k.

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[Adam]

So many miles. That's even more than Jenn's Civic.

[kevm14]

Highest mileage C5 Z06 that I've seen. This is a better deal.

2001 Z06, 191k, $8k in Orlando
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... Code1=CORV

C&D got a 12.7 @ 113 for the 01. I'm sure it still would run that. Motor Trend got 12.48 @ 114.9 for the 02.

I assure you, a C5 Z06 with 191k for $8k is interesting. And on the up side, we know the engine is good to at least 400k...

[kevm14]

I am way off topic. Kind of. If I can find a place to move this stuff I will. In the meantime...

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrol ... vette-z06/

If you read our special Corvette issue (April 2003), you know that, here at Motor Trend, we love Corvettes and consider the '03 Z06 the best Corvette to date. Why? Because it's exotic-car fast and allows you to run with all the big boys from Europe at a fraction of their exotic-car prices. And, while we wish Chevy would build the Z06 using the sexier glass-hatch coupe body, we still love it for its unmistakable, all-American "I'm a badass" attitude.

Bill would agree with that part.

In the past, we've criticized the Vette's interior for being loaded with down-market plastics and low-grade leather; the complaints continue, but our fingers are crossed for a new, supercar-worthy interior when the C6 debuts in '04. Yet, to be honest, even if the interior doesn't improve much, the possibility of the rumored 500-horse Z06 is enough to make us forget about the plastics in the cockpit--we'll be too busy gawking at the "500 hp" written on the side of the front fender.

I don't know that they got their supercar-worthy interior for 05 but you can see horsepower/performance excitement was alive and well from GM, way back in 2003. And the 02-04 is almost as fast as a 2018 Mustang GT (12.6 sec @ 115 mph, manual) or Camaro SS (12.3 sec @ 116 mph, auto). Which cost like $39-45k+.

[bill25]

Some people like having rare cars which is probably affecting the value of the PPV.

Here is the problem:
If you like big American V8 RWD cars, there are very few options.
Ford doesn't make any. Last one they did make was underpowered for it's time and on an ancient platform.
FCA makes 2 that are the same car - Charger/300. These sell well and are reasonably priced, but need transmissions.
I personally would buy a Challenger if I had to buy FCA, but that is a coupe, so not relevant to this discussion.

GM has a spotty few offerings that are all overpriced due to either rediculous high new cost (SS), or rarity (G8), or just overall low production(STS-V).

So for GM, depending on the year you have the G8, SS, STS-V, and PPV. I would argue the CTS-V is small for a large sedan, but whatever.

Part of the problem is you guys are leaving out age as a price variable. You can't compare a B-Body price that was made in early to mid 90's to a car that was made in 2007 or whatever. I am sure a 23 year old PPV will be in the 2-5K range depending on condition. Also, like the Impala SS, the SS will likely be more like 7-10K if in good condition that old, and you guys won't be interested because that is way to much money for a 23 year old car. Just like how you ignore the Impala now because it is too expensive.

The real problem is production numbers, whis is directly related to new price. If these are to be affordable used, they need to sell in real numbers new. For whatever reason, GM is not interested in that like FCA is.

We just looked. You can get a V8 Charger for 33 or 34K where that Camaro starts at like 38K. Chevy has no "regular car/sedan that has a V8 now so the Camaro is the only thing to cross check. The camaro starts at 37 or 38K. So more than 10% more than the Dodge, and the back seat is usless for anyone that has a family, where as the Charger can easily seat at least 4.

[kevm14]

Part of the problem is you guys are leaving out age as a price variable. You can't compare a B-Body price that was made in early to mid 90's to a car that was made in 2007 or whatever. I am sure a 23 year old PPV will be in the 2-5K range depending on condition. Also, like the Impala SS, the SS will likely be more like 7-10K if in good condition that old, and you guys won't be interested because that is way to much money for a 23 year old car. Just like how you ignore the Impala now because it is too expensive.

The real problem there is that the PPV is not "Almost a Chevy SS" the way a 94-96 9C1 was "Almost an Impala SS.". It's not even based on the same Holden vehicle (Statesman vs Commodore). It's true though that if they imported the Commodore and Statesman all along, even with less than SS trim, we'd have a lot more options now. I'd also change my tune if the Caprice PPV used the exact SS drivetrain. Where's the LS3 police car?

I wouldn't ignore an 06 Charger SRT8 because of the transmission. It is basically a Mercedes 5-speed transmission. I believe they are just fine.