Camaro hunting

[Bob]

Congrats to Bill! Is the weather good enough to just drive it back?

[kevm14]

Forecast is for rain but it will be warmer than it has been in weeks so I think that trade is reasonable.

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[bill25]

Congrats to Bill! Is the weather good enough to just drive it back?

Thanks!!! I am super pumped. I have been planning for this for a long time...

I think the rain sucks, but, the higher temp is good. The drive back won't be exceptionally fun due to rain, but if we drive reasonably it should be fine.

Saturday AM should not have crazy traffic, and shouldn't be a problem.
I'll feel better when it is registered and done. I am pretty excited though.

[bill25]

I found an interesting article:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/r ... -ss-1le-2/

Says a Camaro engineer lapped VIR in 2:58.3. That raises the level quite a bit, but that isn't really fair as those other cars were not driven by this driver.
That would put it tied with #65 fastest, (vice #87) and .1 second slower than a 2007 Corvette Z06!

-Edit - I also realize it doesn't matter as I am not that driver either...
-Edit - Also in the article:

Chevy has added a vacuum-operated dual-mode exhaust system option ($895) to LS3-equipped Camaros with manual transmissions.

So it was new to the 2013, but an add on, not standard.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/l ... rical-data

Also, the SRT Charger Hellcat is #97

[bill25]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYiFiWn38jw

Good video. Randy drives about halfway through.

[kevm14]

Since another forum member recently purchased a 2014 CTS Vsport for $24k, and I happen to know many of the stats are very similar, I thought a comparison would be fun.

C&D VIR time for 2013 1LE: 3:01.5
C&D VIR time for 2014 CTS Vsport: 3:06.8

That is a pretty big gap. But what I really want to know is how big would the gap be on the same tires.

Vsport runs Pirelli Pzero runflats.
The Pirellis have a treadwear of 220 and are in the Max Performance Summer category.
The Goodyears on the 1LE are also 220, but are in the Extreme Performance Summer category.

While the tires are closer than I thought, Tirerack does put the Goodyears in the highest non-racing category which is one notch higher than the Pirellis. That said the Vsport also runs 245 fronts and 275 rears. The 1LE wears 285s all around. But from a stock vs stock standpoint, it does appear that the 1LE has considerably more track capability, especially when you consider how similar they are in the following instrumented measurements:

Vsport specs:
Curb weight: 3966 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 18.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.2 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 111 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 172 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 149 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.97 g

2015 1LE specs (could not find C&D specs on a 2013, oddly):
Curb weight: 3884 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.3 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 30.2 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 11.0 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 10.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 111 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 156 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 145 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.01 g

On paper these cars are REALLY closely matched, which is impressive for the Vsport. But the track numbers reveal a combination of more aggressive tires (and just MORE tire), combined with an obviously more single purpose chassis tuning configuration on the 1LE. And consider the feat of being this close with a luxury sedan.

[kevm14]

And just for fun, a 2014 Chevrolet SS (A6):
Curb weight: 3931 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.5 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 28.6 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 111 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 160 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 153 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.95 g

Also extremely similar!

I don't believe the SS ever appeared in a Lightning Lap sadly.

2015 SS with M6 and MR shocks:
Curb weight: 3970 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.7 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 31.1 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.0 sec @ 111 mph
Top speed (gov ltd, C/D est): 160 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 159 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.97 g

For completeness the SS uses Potenza RE050As in.....245/275 just like the Vsport. Those are Max Performance Summer (same class as Vsport Pirellis) but treadwear 140. Yikes.

I just think it's fun that these are so clustered together. Unfortunately, we may look back and be like...remember the mid 2010s? Great cars, affordable on the used market. SS gone. Vsport going away (I think). Now even rumors of Camaro going away...which is batshit insane.

[Bob]

Here's the Vsport article: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/c ... ?desktop=1

It sounds like it could benefit from better tires; however I doubt that would cut the lap time by 5 seconds. Overall, the chassis seems to get high praise.

We had to keep reminding ourselves that the Cadillac CTS Vsport has 420 horsepower. Part of the problem is perspective. Jump from a 577-hp Mercedes-Benz E63 into the twin-turbo CTS and suddenly the Vsport—a car capable of zero to 60 in 4.6 seconds—feels a little pokey. But a VIR lap time of 3:06.8 isn’t pokey. In fact, that puts the CTS just one-tenth of a second off the 550-hp Jaguar XFR-S’s time.

Like the CTS-V before it, the new CTS’s chassis is unfazed by the smack of a curb, the disturbance of a blind crest, or the crash of a downhill landing. Nothing seems to disrupt the cabin’s serenity. As a nearly 4000-pound car, it easily overwhelms the grip of its Pirelli P Zeros, but the Cadillac never fights back. Here, a loss of traction isn’t an emergency; it’s a trip without a fall.

Through sector one, the CTS is already up 1.1 seconds on the XFR-S. Peak grip is shy of the Jag’s, but the Caddy is quicker through here due to its ability to accelerate cleanly out of the corner. In the XFR-S, by contrast, nearly all power delivery is accompanied by the time-robbing snap of oversteer.

On the uphill esses, a stretch that would likely have a 45-mph speed limit were it a public road, the CTS goes in at 122.3 mph. The XFR-S and the Vsport tie through the section, but the Cadillac’s confidence-building stability encourages powering up the hill. Despite giving up 130 horsepower to the XFR-S, the CTS makes up its entry-speed deficit with higher average and exit velocities.

Timing upshifts in the CTS is the only irritating part of the experience. An overly sensitive rev limiter cuts power for what seems like an eternity if you don’t perfectly time the right-paddle tug. Oh, and the thick steering-wheel rim obscures the upper reaches of the tachometer.

It’s not that the Cadillac lacks power, it’s that the Cadillac copes with its power so effectively that it feels slower than it is. Jaguar used to call that grace under pressure.

[Bob]

SS 1LE article: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/l ... AMAROSS1LE

Without a complete redesign, Chevrolet couldn't change the fact that the Camaro is huge, heavy, and struck blind by its poor outward visibility. But Chevy could change the chassis, and—fortunately—it did. Some serious suspension magic (option code 1LE) has transformed the Camaro SS into a track delight.

Much of the credit goes to the 285/35R-20 rubber at all four corners that replaces the narrower, staggered setup of the base SS. Wider front tires provide instant bite that corresponds perfectly  with the slightest turn of the quick (2.5 turns lock-to-lock) steering. Thanks to a revised shock, spring, and anti-roll-bar tune, the old SS's slightly soggy initial compliance is gone. In its place is tighter, but more graceful, body and wheel control.

The car gained a full second over the regular SS in the uphill esses of sector two, where confidence and grip led to an entry speed of 126.1 mph. Still more impressive is the 1LE's 115.8-mph average speed through the sector, a number that nearly matches the SS's peak sector speed of 116.2 mph. Very fast fact: The 1LE was only a tenth of a ­second slower than the Ferrari 458 through the uphill esses.

Other changes include a shorter final drive (to 3.91:1 from 3.45:1) and tighter spacing between the first three gears. The result is an energized Camaro that flies out of ­corners. A shorter shifter shared with the ZL1 snicks into gear with conviction.

Almost nothing upsets this chassis, though we did manage to waste a second or so with a poorly timed three-two downshift at the end of sector three, causing a bit of predictable oversteer on hot, well-worn tires. Remove that one regrettable slip-up and add a fresh set of Goodyears, and you have a sub-three-minute car for the low, low price of $37,930.

[kevm14]

Assumed destination: 15 Locust Ave, East Norwich, NY 11732

To bring:
Bill of sale template
Radios
Phone charger
Two E-Zpasses (one on car going down, one extra for return in Camaro)
Insurance card
Bank check
Refreshments? Water...snacks? Gum?
1/8" aux-in cable from SRX

Checklist at car:
Confirm RPO (1LE)
Check VIN placards/stickers
Check all 4 tires (tread)
Pictures of whatever (wheels, exterior, under carriage, engine, interior, etc.)
Test drive
Get mufflers, air intake, car cover, any other things he wants to hand over (keys? Remotes?)
If he needs to sign the title, do that
Sign bill of sale

Set maps to leave at 6am tomorrow.

Google Maps says 2h 30m to 3h 10m
Bing Maps says 3h 36m (48 min delay predicted, which means a 2h 48m nominal time WITHOUT traffic which is in the middle of Google's estimate WITH traffic)

Probably safe to assume a 3 to 3-1/2 hour trip door to door...that's with no stops obviously.