Shopping for a new tablet

[kevm14]

Bonus, the 512GB SSD in this generation was uniquely fast per an article I'll link if I remember.

https://www.windowscentral.com/surface- ... ssd-review

[kevm14]

A German benchmark review comparing the i7 to the i5. Apparently throttling is an issue for sustained heavy loads.

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Micr ... 076.0.html

Highlights:
Display is a Panasonic Panel VVX14T092N00

Already during our detailed test of the Surface Laptop i5, we were a little surprised to learn that Microsoft has resorted to the rarely used Core i7-7660U instead of the widely used Core i7-7600U. Here, the decision was clearly in favor of the graphics power, which represents the difference between the two processors. While the Intel Core i7-7660U has the pleasure with the Iris Plus Graphics 640 GPU, the Core i7-7600U would only have had the weaker HD Graphics 620 GPU, which is about half a year older. With the Iris Plus Graphics 640 GPU, we hope the Surface Laptop i7 will have a clear advantage in graphics-heavy applications, but no wonders in games.

Hmm. Wonder if that was an early model. This should be easy enough to test on my own I guess.

In direct comparison to the Surface Laptop Intel Core i5-7200U, the stronger Surface Laptop i7-7660U clocks up to 4 GHz with the Turbo by 900 MHz. Thus, the i7 achieves quite acceptable values in the Cinebench R15 CPU Multi 64Bit test and, as expected, ranks in front of the devices with the Intel Core i7-7600U. But stop! At least that's what it looks like on paper and in the lab. In practice, the whole thing behaves differently, the spoiler here is called Throttling.

Although Throttling has barely noticed on the Surface Laptop i5 with a relatively small power drop of only 7%, and only after several benchmark passes, the Surface Laptop i7 with the Intel Core i7-7660U records major power losses after just a few minutes of continuous stress. Both the Surface Laptop i7 and the Surface Pro i7 (2017), both equipped with the same CPU, ultimately lose between 12 and 17% of performance on the Cinebench R15 loop. Taking these performance losses into account, the Intel Core i7-7660U processors settle a few places lower near the i7-7500U, such as the Acer Switch 5 SW512-52-5819.

As expected, the system performance of the Microsoft Surface Laptop i7 is above the i5 model and also above the Surface Pro i7 (2017).

Seems like it is 10-30% faster than the i5 overall except in extreme throttling cases where the advantage shrinks to under 10%.

This is good.

As sobering as the performance slump was with the CPU, the comparison of the built-in Samsung PM971 KUS040202M 512-GB SSD with the Toshiba THNSN128GTYA of the Surface Laptop i5 model, which had to leave the springs miserably on our Surface laptop i5 test report, is pleasing. In almost all measurement categories, the i7 with the built-in Samsung SSD is clearly ahead of the Surface Laptop i5.

We were excited about the performance of the Intel Core i7-7660U integrated Iris Plus Graphics 640 GPU. This should far exceed the HD Graphics 620 of the Intel Core i5. The Iris Plus Graphics 640 clocks up to 1,050 MHz, but has twice as many execution units (48) in the GT3e expansion stage of the Kaby Lake GPU.

Wow, it shows a solid 40% better in GPU benchmarks than the Surface Laptop with the i5 and Intel HD620 graphics. That is something for sure.

This audio analysis is wild! Leave it to the Germans!

Microsoft Surface Laptop i7 Audio Analysis
(±) | Moderately loud loudspeaker (78
dB) Bass100 - 315 Hz
(±) | Lowerbass - 7.7% lower than
median(-) | No linear bass playback (16.6% delta
to predecessor)midtones 400 - 2000 Hz
(+) | balanced mids, differing from median
only 3.8%(+) | linear mids (4.8% delta
to predecessor)tweets 2 - 16 kHz
(+) | balanced tweets, differing from median only
1.6%(+) | very linear tweets (4.6% delta
to predecessor)Total in audible range 100 - 16,000 Hz
(+) | audible range is very linear (10.4% distance from the median
Compared to all devices in the sameclass

» 3% of all tested devices of this class were better, 1% comparable, 96% worse» The best device has a delta value of 8%, average is 20%, the worst device has 50%
Compared to all devicestested
» 3% of all devices tested were better, 2% comparable, 96% worse

Also damn, this does a great job. Not sure how much I need good audio, as I have my Soundcore BT speaker but it's always good to have good built-in audio I suppose. Apparently this is in the top like 96% of all laptops they've tested. That's pretty incredible for such a thin and light device. I was not expecting this.

When idle, the Microsoft Surface i7 is similar to the Surface Laptop i5 when it consumes power, and the average consumption of the more powerful i7 CPU is 25% higher under full load. It's pleasing that Microsoft has managed to reduce idle power consumption compared to the Surface Pro, even though the Surface Pro also has an Intel Core i7-7660U. It should be noted, however, that the Surface Pro already caught our eye at that time in the test report with the above-average energy intake compared to its competitors.

Seems to be about 9% worse than the i5 version overall.

Looking at battery life, the Surface Laptop i7 behaves the same as we expected when Wi-Fi is turned on and at full load. When playing videos, the i7 laptop lasts even longer than the Surface Pro or MacBook Pro 13,but doesn't quite get close to the peak running times of the Dell XPS 13.

Battery
NBC WiFi Websurfing Battery Test 1.3
7h 34min
Big Buck Bunny H.264 1080p
12h 47min
Load (full brightness)
1h 51min

So you can kill it in just under 2 hours if you run everything balls to the wall. The video test reveals good optimization for that, and that reaches nearly 13 hours of playback. The web test says about 7-1/2 hours and that seems about right I guess. Should be more than adequate for my needs.

Conclusion:

It's not easy for us to get a quick conclusion on the Microsoft Surface Laptop i7. The Intel Core i7-7660U is and remains a double-edged sword. On the one hand, we have the disappointing turbo performance that Microsoft hasn't learned from the mistakes of the past on the Surface Pro i7 (2017).

Due to Throttling, the advantage of the higher turbo clock of the Intel Core i7-7660U can hardly be played out at continuous continuous load, but in terms of price, a total 350 Euro surcharge for the i7 compared to the i5-7200U is due.

On the other hand, once the first disappointment is overcome, it becomes clear that not only the i7 finds itself in the price. The stronger Iris Plus Graphics 640, which is integrated into the Intel Core i7-7660U, and the much faster SSD must also be taken into account. Although it would be more appropriate to criticize Toshiba's lame SSD in the i5 model rather than praise the brisk Samsung SSD in the i7. Even the stronger Iris Plus Graphics 640 is definitely the better choice for graphics-heavy applications, but it doesn't turn the i7 Surface laptop into a gaming laptop.

As with the i5 model, the missing USB Type-C ports and SD card readers are also noticeable here, even if this is probably not the top priority for everyone when making a purchase decision. Nor is the surface material from Alcantara a decisive criterion for purchasing, although this is admittedly a welcome change from the usual cheap-looking plastic surfaces. There is therefore nothing to complain about the workmanship, the housing is of high quality and the overall impression is correct. Mobility can also be described as very good with its long battery life. Microsoft is targeting students with the Surface laptops, who should easily get through everyday life at university, especially with the more affordable i5 version for students with slightly longer battery life.

Finally, the initial question remains whether the handle to the Surface Laptop i7 is recommended. From our point of view, the only criticism is the repeatedly mentioned drop in performance, which occurs after a few minutes in turbo mode. Nevertheless, the i7 remains the faster device with better CPU and GPU performance even during throttling. If the faster Samsung SSD is taken into account, the choice of surface laptop i7 is quite reasonable.

Overall this seems fine. Faster SSD, definitely faster GPU, and the CPU does have more performance available as long as you aren't asking for like sustained 100% load for minutes on end. Honestly that wouldn't likely happen with how I intend to use it. So the fast CPU for short bursts should make it feel quite snappy.

[kevm14]

Ugh I found a human-translated version.

Here are the specs:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft ... 204.0.html

And the review:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft ... 206.0.html

[kevm14]

I got a notification that it was delivered at about 10am. Of course it rained all day so I'm like....they better have wrapped the box in a bag.

Got home and yes it was in a bag.

It wasn't packed as well as I would have liked. It was not in its original box. In fact the laptop was wrapped in some bubble wrap, then they put in some packing peanuts into a USPS box, threw the charger and mouse in and slid the laptop in with the rest of the packing peanuts. Not the best. However, I did not see any evidence of any shipping damage so it worked out fine. In fact the laptop was sort of suspended in the middle of the box as opposed to sitting on one face and being subject to damage from even a minor puncture type of thing.

It was fully charged and when I turned it on, it auto logged in as NewUser which is funny because Adam predicted it would be in a config like that. Thinking more about it, that may be a thing to sell used computers on eBay to idiots who would complain if it didn't turn on and go right to the desktop upon powering on. It makes it easy to be immediately satisfied with the purchase and not give bad feedback, and a power user like myself can deal with reinstalling the OS or whatever.

Had Win 10 Pro 1909. I did run a battery report and it is at 88% capacity. I would have liked higher but the thing is this machine is in near new cosmetic condition so overall I am happy when you factor everything in for the price. It seems to have the OEM 65W power supply, which is magnetic.

Other impressions are that the hardware is extremely nice. Beautiful screen, very nice chassis. This really does seem like the MacBook Air of Windows machines. I even like the alcantara keyboard deck.

I started poking around in the OS. First I verified the config (i7, 16/512GB) and it was all correct. I did notice it had Office, CCcleaner and a couple of other non-standard things but honestly quite clean still. But I wasn't going to just use it so I decided to initiate a reset to reimage from the recovery partition or whatever it does there. That's where I ran into my first issue.

It started going through the process but when it got to a certain point, it threw an error and said it restarted unexpectedly and click OK to try again. I did that in a loop like 10 times and asked the internet. It seemed to be a common issue with Win 10 machines. Maybe something happens to the recovery image or something.

Not to be deterred, I decided to download the recovery tool and made a recovery image on an old 8GB USB thumb drive that I found somehow (I never use them). They make this really easy these days. You literally download a small tool, plug in a USB stick, and run it, and it downloads while creating the recovery stuff on the USB drive with no user interaction other than choosing basic stuff initially like x86 vs x64.

So I managed to get it to boot off of the USB stick and begin the process. I just did a brand new install on the main partition. I wanted to start fresh with a clean OS direct from MS for a variety of reasons, mostly obvious ones.

Then I ran into the second issue. It detected wifi and I used the touchpad to select my network. However, when I went to type in the password, nothing happened. The keyboard wasn't responsive. Wow. Missing a driver??? I made no effort to download a special Surface Laptop recovery image if it even exists, so this was a totally generic Win 10 install, but I would have still expected the keyboard to work. Nope. So I snagged my old Dell USB keyboard from my desktop, plugged it into the sole USB port and bam, at least I had something to type on.

EDIT: Whoops, there is a Surface specific recovery image that I could have downloaded after inputting the serial number. My bad. That would have certainly prevented this issue. I hope that I am not missing anything important and that the windows update grabbed everything this machine needs. Or I could still blow it away again and use that....but I digress.

After that things weren't too bad. And actually it seems like MS must keep that recovery image fresh because the update cycle was not ridiculous at all. It is running 20H2 whatever that is. I hope it's not a preview build or something...

But yeah the keyboard started working and it basically installed all the right things all on its own and the device manager is clean as I'd expect. All up and running now. I think that was worth the effort to get back to a squeaky clean Windows install. Went to office.com and got my 365 stuff all going so just like that I have full Office with very little effort. Onedrive is connected.

So how is it? It's awesome! I love this thing. The keyboard is outstanding. The accuracy is very good. I have been making VERY few mistakes typing this all out. I'll try to summarize some other stuff:
- I tried a Youtube video and the speakers are pretty decent.
- Windows Hello is AWESOME! For those who don't keep up on that, it's a camera-based login which, like a PIN, does not send stuff out to a server; there's nothing you can "steal." If you get my PIN or somehow fake the biometric face detection, it only works on this physical machine, nowhere else. It authenticates locally so that's secure enough for me, and it seems better than typing your MS account password all over the place. The biometric stuff (and a PIN for that matter) are specific to a particular device. You have to set it up per device. And it works seamlessly. It has an IR lamp so it works in the light or dark. It's particularly cool for multiple users which is the use case for this where I will have Jamie and Ian be users. I can be using it, shut the screen and it auto locks as you might expect. Then another user can simply open the screen and all in one seamless and fast motion you are logged into your desktop. You literally just lift the lid. It's awesome.
- The machine feels incredibly snappy but I expected this. I did see some heavy CPU usage during initial setup when it was going nuts with Windows Update and stuff like that. The fan is quiet though at full tilt you CAN hear it. Mostly you don't hear anything.
- The backlight has an auto mode to adjust with ambient lighting. I think I didn't realize it had this but it is nice to have.
- Did I mention the screen is amazing? It's very pleasant to look at. Crisp, smooth, good colors, all the things. I have scaling set to 150% and it's great.

I think this was a success. I should leave feedback for the seller.

[kevm14]

I was able to get Ian going for the distance learning day today. Yes this also makes a great Chromebook (obviously better than most). It's nice to fly around all the stuff, which we aren't used to on the Vaio. Also this is where the Windows Hello is just so seamless. It's like the Keyless Go of computers. Once you have it, it's hard to go back. Ian can simply lift the lid, and it either logs him in, or unlocks his locked session (whichever applies) and he can do his school stuff. We had a PIN for him on the Vaio which was fine, too but this is even better.

[kevm14]

Now the battery capacity is 93%. That's interesting.

[kevm14]

According to MS, the warranty expired on May 26, 2019.

If it originally had a 1 year warranty, that means the date in service would have been May 26, 2018. Manufacture could have been any time before that I suppose but they first became available for retail purchase on June 15, 2017. So I would put the date some number of months before the in service date for the warranty.

For reference, the Surface Laptop 2 became available for purchase starting on October 16, 2018.

Looking at the timeline I guess I'd put this as more than 50% through the production run. And from an age standpoint, I would consider this a 2-1/2 year old machine. Not too bad.

[kevm14]

Of course I've been watching more reviews since I'm a sucker for post-purpose rationalization. Also watched the iFixit video on disassembling the Surface Laptop. Oh god, it's so bad. It got a score of 0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAI6yIZI3rg

The Surface Laptop 3 actually had some key improvements to being able to disassemble it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpXizbzeRoc

As a result the score jumped to 5. It still had the same battery design which is glued down to the chassis with no pull tabs to release. Still sketchy so from a battery standpoint, there's really nothing better about the Surface Laptop 3 other than the teardown TO the battery is much less invasive. It has a pretty snazzy design to hold the keyboard deck down (spoilers: it's magnets and screws, not glue) but as you might predict, that leads to a little more flex to the keyboard and the Surface Laptop 3 keyboard is reported to not be as nice as the 1st or 2nd gen. Always tradeoffs.

Also found some problems with the touchpad popping out. Making me a little nervous about first gen hardware (their first real laptop, though after years of experience with various convertible/tablet devices). It seemed to be related to people like dropping it or something but there may be cases with something less than dropping.

I am still extremely satisfied with this machine, however. It's just....a delight. I mean, get back to me if something breaks because it seems the ability to fix is mostly non-existent though iFixit does sell a battery for this laptop, but I have no idea how you'd take it apart without ruining the keyboard/surround/Alcantara part. And reading about the trackpad popping out when you are rough with it, I'll probably continue to treat it as a precious object.

So in the end maybe it would be a lesson learned about buying a completely not serviceable machine. Maybe there will be a Surface Laptop 4 that is reasonable and even the 3 could be OK (like for storage replacement but the CPU and RAM are still soldered which is quite common now). Or I'll get like 5+ years out of it with no issues other than some battery capacity loss and that would be pretty respectable.

[dochielomn]

Didn't read through everything here but since changing jobs a little over a year ago, when I got there my employer basically gave me the option of getting a regular laptop or a Surface Pro. I wasn't really familiar with the Surface Pro at the time and it just felt very weird giving me the power to request what I wanted in a "computer" so to speak. So I kind of hesitated for a little bit until my boss eventually told me to just get the Surface Pro as everyone else on his team had one. So I think I ended up getting a Surface Pro 6. Overall, I've been happy with it. I think as everything has gone to touch screen, I enjoy being able to utilize it, more so with the pen aspect and using such programs as Bluebeam in order to actually put redlines on a drawing and then just saving as a PDF. I know my boss had told me that I could take the Surface Pro to a meeting, use the pen, and take notes on it, but I don't think I've gotten to that level. I found that sometimes the pen might not be as responsive as a regular pen on paper, so I'd still prefer to take notes the "non-digital" way. But overall, I'm happy with the Surface Pro. I guess my only comment is the lack of ports on it, but I get that's a tradeoff for size/space.

[kevm14]

In the other thread I said my Surface laptop doesn't display battery runtime remaining, only the percentage. Apparently this is not a bug.

https://www.howtogeek.com/405868/how-to ... indows-10/

Well, I'll probably enable it via the registry.