Pro Daily Camaro
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
Maybe I need to watch the video again...
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
None of what I said makes the car not cool. It is cool. But the episode was a lot more than "this is a cool car." They had very specific arguments which I was rebutting. And that 7 sentence comment I quoted covers it perfectly.
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
For me, I am a little less stuck on EFI. I like cars in general. I appreciate a carb car for it's ability to be mechanically tuned, and I like EFI because I like computers and hacking so to be able to understand how to "program" a car, well that is cool to me. I am also impressed with the steam stuff that Jay Leno has and even the "cool" electric stuff. I am into performance as the common denominator. I don't care for the electric "appliance" cars, but the twin engine Tesla, you have my attention. Overall I am into cars that have performance and I like variety. So if there is a Monte Carlo SS with a carbureted 454, I like that, I know an EFI LS motor can make as much power, more efficiently, but I like both. There is something about a 454 rumbling and smelling like gas and oil, like an old car. It is just awesome. It isn't super technologically advanced, but it is still awesome to me. I like to see a variety, and I appreciate that people have preferences that don't really have to make sense.
For me, I would probably have a twin turbo LS Monte Carlo SS for fuel efficiency when I am not being an idiot, but have the crazy power on demand when I need it. If I was rich and didn't care about gas prices, I would have the 5 MPG 454 because nothing sounds like that. If these cars were side by side, I would drool over both. That's what is awesome about being a car enthusiast, you can like different things. As long as it isn't Dodge, Ford, European, or ... god forbid some fart can, rice burning import. (sorry, I was serious for way too long)
For me, I would probably have a twin turbo LS Monte Carlo SS for fuel efficiency when I am not being an idiot, but have the crazy power on demand when I need it. If I was rich and didn't care about gas prices, I would have the 5 MPG 454 because nothing sounds like that. If these cars were side by side, I would drool over both. That's what is awesome about being a car enthusiast, you can like different things. As long as it isn't Dodge, Ford, European, or ... god forbid some fart can, rice burning import. (sorry, I was serious for way too long)
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
It's just that there's never been something so disruptive as the Gen III+ V8s. Hotrodding has been around forever (Ford flathead V8 anyone?). And hotrodding the SBC has also been around forever. Putting a 350 into stuff 15, 20 or 30 years ago did NOT have the same appeal and broad application potential as the Gen III+ does, even when you factor in its contemporaries. I mean for a while, the hottest thing you could do to a Miata was the Ford 302. And the most interesting thing to happen to the SBC in a practical application was in a Jaguar XJ. But you could never check as many boxes with those as you can with today's LS swaps.
Big blocks used to be cool (to me) when they were the only way to get high power N/A. That was back at a time where a small block at that power would idle at 1500 rpm and be dripping raw gas out of the exhaust until you got it going (and have nothing until like 4000 rpm). But that's no longer the case. I should put up some LS builds so you can see the kind of power, drivability and fuel economy that is possible, naturally aspirated.
I think the interest lies in the build. Lately I'm even kind of fascinated with the carbureted LS builds because, I guess carbs are still improving. But maybe more importantly, having heads with the kind of flow numbers that we see today at all valve lifts (numbers that guys in the 60s couldn't even mange a wet dream about let alone reality) was the key. Not that EFI doesn't still have an advantage but with the monumentally better head design of the Gen III and IV, you can achieve HP goals with less cam, which consequently gives you a stronger vacuum signal to the carb, which is critical. And never mind what the aftermarket head porters have been doing.
So, an LS swap can even make carbs better. That's how awesome.
Big blocks used to be cool (to me) when they were the only way to get high power N/A. That was back at a time where a small block at that power would idle at 1500 rpm and be dripping raw gas out of the exhaust until you got it going (and have nothing until like 4000 rpm). But that's no longer the case. I should put up some LS builds so you can see the kind of power, drivability and fuel economy that is possible, naturally aspirated.
I think the interest lies in the build. Lately I'm even kind of fascinated with the carbureted LS builds because, I guess carbs are still improving. But maybe more importantly, having heads with the kind of flow numbers that we see today at all valve lifts (numbers that guys in the 60s couldn't even mange a wet dream about let alone reality) was the key. Not that EFI doesn't still have an advantage but with the monumentally better head design of the Gen III and IV, you can achieve HP goals with less cam, which consequently gives you a stronger vacuum signal to the carb, which is critical. And never mind what the aftermarket head porters have been doing.
So, an LS swap can even make carbs better. That's how awesome.
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
I have one of those. Some assembly required.billgiacheri wrote:So if there is a Monte Carlo SS with a carbureted 454...
Re: Pro Daily Camaro
I guess I'll expand a little on my statement that the interest is in the build. People say "LS swap" as if there's just one general thing you do. That's, of course, not true. You can start with a variety of donor engines, iron block or aluminum block. You can even start with iron heads, but you'll need a 1999-2000 LQ4 for that. With regard to the block, wiki has this to say about iron Gen IIIs:
Inserting a Gen III+ into something that never even had a V8 does require some research and there are always snags that need to be overcome. That makes for an interesting narrative. I guess my favorite packaging stories are the roadster type builds where no one can really believe it fits, even if some massaging was required. The result is never, ever boring.
Speaking of vehicle integration, I also love it when they go through the extra effort to make the stock gauge cluster work. It is usually possible. I also like to see clean and neat installations, which is not something everyone takes the care to achieve.
There are all kinds of interesting subtleties in the engine build itself, too. Like what intake to run. DBW or cable throttle. Cathedral vs rectangular port heads. Head porting. What kind of cam grind to run (which changes depending on the head design, naturally). And of course there's the whole turbo aspect. These decisions existed before but they never meant as much as they do now. 20 years ago it was basically Vortec L31 heads (probably with the valve guides ground down so you could run actual valve lift on them) or something older that was highly ported.
GM's R&D investment in the stock parts has made aftermarket use of this engine series that much more popular and practical. And unlike other engines from automakers that ship the product with high specific output (representing their own R&D investment), there is a ton of untapped potential off the showroom floor. Yet, you don't have to start from scratch to access it.
I believe this has a lot to do with the kinds of power folks are making with stock blocks and stock cranks. Just in terms of the ability to hold it together, I mean.The architecture of the LS series makes for an extremely strong engine block with the aluminum engines being nearly as strong as the iron generation I and II engines and with the iron LS engines far exceeding the capabilities of the previous two generations.
Inserting a Gen III+ into something that never even had a V8 does require some research and there are always snags that need to be overcome. That makes for an interesting narrative. I guess my favorite packaging stories are the roadster type builds where no one can really believe it fits, even if some massaging was required. The result is never, ever boring.
Speaking of vehicle integration, I also love it when they go through the extra effort to make the stock gauge cluster work. It is usually possible. I also like to see clean and neat installations, which is not something everyone takes the care to achieve.
There are all kinds of interesting subtleties in the engine build itself, too. Like what intake to run. DBW or cable throttle. Cathedral vs rectangular port heads. Head porting. What kind of cam grind to run (which changes depending on the head design, naturally). And of course there's the whole turbo aspect. These decisions existed before but they never meant as much as they do now. 20 years ago it was basically Vortec L31 heads (probably with the valve guides ground down so you could run actual valve lift on them) or something older that was highly ported.
GM's R&D investment in the stock parts has made aftermarket use of this engine series that much more popular and practical. And unlike other engines from automakers that ship the product with high specific output (representing their own R&D investment), there is a ton of untapped potential off the showroom floor. Yet, you don't have to start from scratch to access it.