Car and Driver Archives - G-Body - 1985

[bill25]

Here is the link to the pdf:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/mod ... jul-85.pdf

Pretty cool. Too bad it was before the Grand National really peaked.

Also interesting how much worse the Cutlass was while sharing so much with the other 2.

[Adam]

Yeah it is strange the cutlass performed so poorly. The 442 had the same 3.73:1 rear gear (in a better axle) as the SS. The lower 1/4 mile trap speed seems to indicate the Olds was down on power compared to the Chevy. Maybe the press car they got had done one too many burnouts?

It would have been interesting to see this comparison done two years later as the Chevy and the Buick had modest power bumps.

I will say one thing about the Olds engine. Low end torque. I had a regular cutlass in high school with the 'y' code 307 and even though it only made 140 hp, it delivered all of its 250 lb-ft just off idle. It was a great cruising vehicle.

[kevm14]

The hot 307 probably didn't have that same low end torque though. Interestingly it makes the same rated 180hp at 4000rpm vs the 305 (4800). It is possible the 305 had a broader torque curve (and the trans shifted at a higher rpm) leading to higher trap speeds.

Did all three of these cars use the 200-4R? The article is short on specs...so the Monte and Olds used 3.73 while the Buick used 3.42?

Commenting as I go. It's funny how the Buick had the worst gauge cluster.

Wow sounds like the Monte was definitely the best overall car, in fact they said as much. The GN hadn't quite made it into the ridiculously fast range yet (no intercooler). Of course that doesn't much impact the buying decision if one was shopping for G-bodies today. Buy the body style you like and you can probably deal with gauges (and certainly suspension) as you go.

That Olds was just a dog. Slowest, worst gas mileage.

[kevm14]

Did GM put the 8.5" 10 bolt in the 84-85 GN? Maybe there's one for sale with a blown engine or no engine, so you could have a nice shell, with the right axle size (and put an LSx into it). I imagine the 84-85 are much less desirable than the 86-87. http://www.gnttype.org/general/product.html

For all 3.8 SFI turbo production (T-Type and GN):
1984: 5,200
1985: 4,200
1986: 7,900
1987: 27,600 (20,200 of which were just Grand Nationals!)

This is a sketchy way of answering the question, but it seems the 84-87 cars did have the 8.5" axle: http://www.1aauto.com/1A/differential-c ... 001/320943

Cheapest I could find on Autotrader ($8k but really nice!): http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... 2267&Log=0

Or you could just buy the axle for $1200: http://www.worldofmotorworks.com/store/ ... cts_id=229

Ah but it's not just the Buick turbos!

According to this, it's also 83-84 Hurst Olds and 85-87 442.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thread ... end.38776/

Read all you want about the 442: http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofhos.htm

Cheapest 442 on Autotrader (1986, $6600): http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... 6459&Log=0

83 Hurst Olds (1983, $7k, lightning rod shifter!): http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... 1217&Log=0

Perhaps target pricing kept them from putting the 8.5" in the Monte. Which is just kinda funny because of the three, that's the one that would obviously be most abused.

Small aside, check out post #36: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thread ... ost-438023

He was trying to put to bed some claim that the LM1 (80s 4bbl 350 used in the Caprice 9C1) had like 300hp. I am fairly certain he is quoting me.

Yup, it was me: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/9c1/ ... ages/57528

[Adam]

People complain about the 7.5" diff all the time, but it isn't completely useless. Mine has taken plenty of abuse and was fine (so far). I think it has something like 110K on it. One of my friends in high school had an '88 SS and it took even more abuse but the diff never gave out. The car was finally junked after it hit a telephone pole. That was sad since that car was a two owner car with maybe 45k on it. It wasn't my friends fault, some jerk pulled out of a side street in front of him and he could have swerved into a truck, hit that car, or swerved into a row of hedges with a telephone pole on the other side of it. In related news, the stock brakes could use an upgrade...

A few years ago a guy I worked with put a truck 454 in his otherwise stock '85 SS. It was a mild build that still used the truck oval port heads. He added a mild cam and an upgraded intake and carb to the engine. Probably made low to mid 300hp and over 400 lb-ft. He had it for more than a year like that and it was fine on the original trans and diff. He did know that those were the weak point so he didn't do many brake stands or neutral drops to preserve it. I have fallen out of touch with him, so I don't know the fate of that car.

As a counterpoint to that, I know of several 3rd generation F bodies that have blown up their diffs.

[kevm14]

This was more an advisory for Bill if he did an LSx in a G-body.

The real problem is manual transmissions and hard, manly shifting. An automatic with any 80s powertrain really shouldn't be able to kill an axle (neutral drops and excessive one wheel peels notwithstanding). An LT1 with a 4L60-E is probably fine.

Fun fact: the 4L60-E in the Firebird in the mid-90s had a normal and sport shift mode, with a button on the center console. There are tables in all 8051 PCMs to address the different shift calibration in each mode. You could wire up a switch, for example.

[Adam]

There are tables in all 8051 PCMs to address the different shift calibration in each mode. You could wire up a switch, for example.

Sounds fancy. Is the shift calibration for the 9C1 similar to the "sport shift" mode?

[kevm14]

I don't know. I do know all cars without that switch are in normal mode. I want to say, from memory having driven a 94 Firebird auto, that the sport mode is even firmer than 9C1 shifting.