Viggen makes top 10 yet again!!

[Fast_Ed]

http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-diffic ... -677258770

How does a Viggen get on the same list as a Reliant Robin and a Dodge Viper ACR?

Danger.

[Adam]

Someone said:

I'm sorry but whoever put the Saab Viggan on the list without ever driving one is fairly ignorant. People assume the torque steer is bad because of the high HP on a FWD car? Did they ignore there is no torque steer on the last model 9-3s that had more torque and HP? Way to base that entry on hearsay.

This guy is an idiot. The list included the Saab Viggen (not Viggan), not the later 9-3s. More importantly, I have driven one and there is a lot of torque steer. Especially on snow tires.

[Fast_Ed]

Agreed. The Viggen has torque steer. Especially in stock form. It was much worse before I installed the steering rack brace and larger rear anti roll bar! (apparently... It's been more than a decade since I experienced that...)

This person should learn the difference between saab models. The newer platform 9-3's (Epsilon?? Kevin would know) were much better than the VIggen platform. I am insulted.

Of course, for a couple of years after the OG9-3 was superceded, the viggen was more powerful than the new models. Those were some sweet years.

[Adam]

(It's been more than a decade since I experienced that...)

Don't go on...

[kevm14]

Speaking of that (and derailing the thread), the 2011 Buick Lacrosse (which is on Epsilon II) had a special trim level, CXS, that came with their new so-called "HiPer strut." Apparently this is a way to really tame torque steer. It also increases steering feel, but at the expensive of some additional cost and complexity.

Info:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/fo ... -tech-dept
http://wardsauto.com/news-analysis/gm-s ... suspension

Dan Edmunds deep dive on this: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/trac ... round.html

Driving impressions:
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2010-buick ... se-lineup/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/ca ... rut-10203/

[kevm14]

This will piss Bill off:

Ford engineered RevoKnuckle to optimize the performance of its too-cool-for-the-U.S., 300-hp Focus RS. GM developed HiPer Struts for the Buick LaCrosse CXS and Regal GS.

[bill25]

Why would that piss me off? We are getting a 350HP RS.

[kevm14]

Because Ford is applying that tech to their version of a WRX STI. GM is using it in a Lacrosse and a Regal GS (the GS is a decently high performance car but a step larger).

[kevm14]

This is the best write up I've seen on why the Foxbody Mustangs were never good handling cars:

Try pushing an unmodified one of these to the limit, and any number of things start to go wrong. First off, the obvious complaint is the straight axle; no camber, no toe, no independence, etc. Worse than just having a stick axle, though is that the rear axle is located poorly, and can move left and right about an inch either direction. That gives you wiggly-ass syndrome, and it makes the limit of grip much less of a line and much more a grey area. The geometry of the 4-link is trash, and the wheel-wrap from acceleration pulls the axle up into the body (causing wheel-hop).

Assuming you can keep the rear end grip in check, the front geometry is atrocious and between the lack of proper camber, the lack of caster, and the roll-center being in the ground that causes it to need a huge front bar, you'll start pushing something fierce.

And of course, the super-flexy chassis, that makes all of the above even less predictable. Sprinkle in 300 lb-ft of torque (did I mention the stock tires are all of 225s?) and it all adds up to make a car that when pushed to the limit, understeers until the rear suspension binds up and the rear end comes around on you.

[Adam]

Thread derailed.