Aluminum Fords vs mixed material GMs

[kevm14]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/war-idea ... -aluminum/

Ford made headlines when it gutted body shops at two pickup truck plants to build the new 2015 F-150 with an aluminum body instead of heavier steel, convinced the cost and risk were worth it for a lighter and better truck. General Motors is equally committed to reducing the weight of future vehicles but has taken a different approach. It quietly pursued ways to use existing body shops, tools, and equipment to spot weld future vehicles with a mix of materials, including aluminum — a strategy deemed less costly and disruptive.

This kind of sounds like classic Ford (past 10 years) and classic GM. It's like EcoBoost vs the small block Gen III/IV/V. One sounds higher tech and the other gets results.

But then the article turns to what sounds really revolutionary in terms of manufacturing: what GM is doing with the CT6.

After years of development and testing, engineers at GM are on the verge of putting a couple parts for the Cadillac CT6 sedan into production that are notable because they require welding steel to aluminum. GM is only months away from assembling seat backs and hood reinforcements using spot welding to join the two metals.

It is potentially a game-changer for an industry seeking the fastest and cheapest way to make lighter, more fuel-efficient vehicles. Others have expressed interest in GM’s technology. Ford’s strategy, so far, is not being emulated by others.

This is a very interesting article, especially if you are a manufacturing/materials nerd (I'm not really).

[kevm14]

Because they will be using aluminum the way GM is using it in the CT6-sparingly, wisely, and without needing to gut whole body shops.

Also... Ford is on their second-gen of turbo V6 gassers. NOBODY has followed them down that road, because the real-world results just aren't there.

[kevm14]

By the way, the K2xx trucks aren't any heavier than Ford's aluminum F150s.......again, EcoBoost all over again.

[bill25]

notable because they require welding steel to aluminum. GM is only months away from assembling seat backs and hood reinforcements using spot welding to join the two metals.

So this is a new tech, And they are starting with safety stuff??? (hood latches and seats) Interesting approach.

I will argue that unlike eco-boost, the aluminum stuff Ford is doing isn't really bad.

[kevm14]

It's not that it's bad. It's that it was a tremendous investment, adds a cost if you need body work, and results in a truck that is...about the same weight as the competition.

They are doing far more than simple stuff like that, but yeah I had similar thoughts.

[bill25]

I guess I disagree with your premise that since they are still heavy, it didn't help. Getting this into production lines will help other platforms too. If GM used this in it's trucks, they would be even lighter. If more companies did it you would have economies of scale. Just because the F-150 was heavier to begin with doesn't really discredit that aluminum is lighter. I think it is good Ford is investing in it's facilities to use it. It is good that GM is looking at alternatives too.

[bill25]

If you are gonna hate on Ford, say something like "maybe now that they can build with aluminum, they can use some on their porker Mustang so that maybe it could at lest almost beat a Camaro..."

[kevm14]

I guess I disagree with your premise that since they are still heavy, it didn't help. Getting this into production lines will help other platforms too. If GM used this in it's trucks, they would be even lighter. If more companies did it you would have economies of scale. Just because the F-150 was heavier to begin with doesn't really discredit that aluminum is lighter, and Ford is investing in it's facilities to use it. It is good that GM is looking at alternatives too.

But that's just the point: GM is being smart with materials like aluminum by using them strategically and ending up with meaningful weight reduction at lower cost, via smart engineering. Not just building the entire body out of it or whatever.

[bill25]

I guess we'll see how it plays out. Ford's method - They can just get aluminum from a distributor that distributes to other companies. GM's method sounds like it requires a special mix, not sure if this already exists or who will make and distribute. Sometimes easier is better. Maybe GM is on to something. Hopefully there won't be issues down the road with 2 different types of metal welded together. Wonder which is lighter. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info.

[kevm14]

GM is onto something because they are not the only ones looking into it. Ford's method was highly disruptive to the manufacturing process.

Ford spent millions to be able to manufacture aluminum-bodied pickups after seven decades of making a steel truck. To make the switch Ford closed its Dearborn Truck Plant in August 2014 to demolish the body shop and build a new one with robots and tooling designed to work with aluminum. Months later, when the plant reopened, Ford repeated the exercise at its Kansas City, Mo., plant.

Ford spent $359 million ripping up Dearborn Truck, another $484 million at the adjacent Diversified and Stamping facilities, and $1.1 billion at the Kansas City plant. Months of downtime were followed by a slow launch of the company’s most profitable vehicle. Revenue took a $2 billion hit in the first quarter of 2015 due to heavy launch costs and F-150 volume was down by 60,000 trucks worth about $40,000 each.

It also took a toll on Ford’s reputation. Critics questioned the wisdom of the move which impacted profitable inventory for a year. Ford officials say strong sales of the profitable trucks, which shed 700 pounds, prove the upheaval and risk were worth it. And the lessons learned will be applied to more vehicles including the SuperDuty pickup and next-generation Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator full-size SUVs.

GM’s Carlson said Ford’s strategy works in a dedicated plant like Dearborn that only makes pickups. But GM wants the flexibility to weld different metals for a new vehicle even if there is another vehicle in the plant that does not need it. GM is expected to incorporate a lot more aluminum in its next generation of pickups in 2018, but they will still rely on advanced steels, making the mixed-material welding capability key.

Most of the costs that Ford sunk into this benefit just the F-150. GM is going to get a lot more bang for their buck on the way they are pursuing it. Remember, it is all in the name of weight reduction and they proved you don't need to make the entire body out of aluminum to have a weight competitive truck.