Monte Carlo SS swap Alternate Plan

[bill25]

Prices of Monte's in good shape are going higher than I would most likely be able to afford if the goal is to do a full swap to about 650HP.

I was looking at alternatives and found that a 2003 CTS can be had for 2 to 3K, in good exterior and interior condition. Kevin brought up swapping a CTS-V, but that seems much more costly if I am going to replace the engine, rear end, and also potentially upgrade the brakes and suspension on a V anyway.

I have to do more research, but there does seem to be aftermarket upgrades for the CTS-V:
http://www.carid.com/2006-cadillac-cts- ... 75171.html

I just need to do more research to determine if these are actually better.
Stillen also makes an upgrade kit for the second gen V: https://www.stillen.com/ap-racing-cadil ... c-cts.html

[bill25]

Pretty interesting write up on CTS-V suspension, and upgrade possibilities:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts- ... uning.html

[kevm14]

All that suspension talk makes me wonder what those guys would say about my car, with stock rate everything, the FG2 shocks and a "street aggressive" alignment (front camber). I know the spring rate is way lower than ideal if you were actually trying to race the car competitively, not to mention all of the bushing rates (or the fact that it HAS rubber bushings). But these guys are chasing demons trying to get these aftermarket parts to behave properly. I think that's great that they are doing it, and trying to understand the math behind it. Yet, I don't have any of these issues and I like the way the car is damped, and the way it rides.

However, it would be appropriate to mention that I did drive a completely stock FE4 CTS-V or two, and I thought the overall suspension performance was "OK" compared to what I was expecting. FG2 shocks and a better alignment for aggressive driving (and Michelin PSS tires) really does wake the suspension up.

Again, I know these guys are smart, but there is still this underlying, persistent myth (on the internets) that as soon as you bolt a single aftermarket part onto the car, it automatically gets better, because stock = junk. That's completely false, even on cars with much lower price tags than the CTS-V.

[kevm14]

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ghtp-1 ... erentials/

Key point:

Baseline testing on our '12 Camaro SS revealed that the OEM suspension improvements (aka FE4) for this model year made a huge difference on the road course, as it surpassed virtually every 2010 and 2011 we've tested in the past – stock or modified

Did FE4 become stock? Needs more research, but this is the start of what I was saying yesterday.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217342

[kevm14]

Like mentioned by the posters above, there are differences between the FE2/3 and FE4 suspension packages. The biggest change being the rear sway bar pickup point on the rear lower control arm. By moving the pickup point outboard of the shock GM picked up more roll stiffness due to better leverage for the sway bar, without increasing overall diameter too much. Increases in roll stiffness really do make for a better handling Camaro, as the very small rear sway bar on the FE3 package was the biggest single contributor to the understeer with the factory suspension package.

Told you they changed something.

[kevm14]

Back on the CTS-V:
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/ghtp-1 ... erentials/

[kevm14]

More on FE4 Camaro SS:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175357

And some actual GM info:
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f143 ... gt-102151/

FE4 suspension enhances performance

The new FE4 suspension debuts as a performance improvement for the Camaro SS coupe in 2012, focusing on more refined handling.

“Our objective was to create a more precise sport suspension for the SS coupe, with greater road-holding capability,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. ”We applied lessons learned from extensive track testing to better refine the suspension geometry for flatter cornering, a more neutral balance during hard turns, and minimized understeer at the limit.”

Elements of the FE4 package include:

Retuned front and rear dampers
New solid front (23 mm) and rear (24 mm) stabilizer bars
Twenty-inch aluminum wheels and P245/45R20 front/P275/40R20 rear tires (SS).
More than just new components, the new FE4 performance suspension incorporates learning from the ongoing development of the high-performance Camaro ZL1. In particular, the suspension geometry has been adjusted, including reshaped stabilizer bars that are repositioned outboard of the shock mounts. This results in more effective body control and more precise response in performance driving.

Ok I've made my point.

[bill25]

So they changed geometry in 2012. That will be the target then. I didn't doubt that they changed suspension, I just didn't know they moved stuff. It still looks 1000 times better than the C5. You telling me that the C5 Corvette can be made fast is about the same as me telling you a Mustang can be made fast. I don't care. My Corolla can be made really fast for 35K I am still not going to do it. You have to like the car if you are going to drive it.

[bill25]

Also from Lightning Lap:

52 - 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 3:01.1
53 - 2008 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 - 3:01.2
54 - 2013 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE - 3:01.5

The 1LE was .4 seconds slower over a whole lap.

[kevm14]

You telling me that the C5 Corvette can be made fast is about the same as me telling you a Mustang can be made fast. I don't care. My Corolla can be made really fast for 35K I am still not going to do it.

You're still missing the point - it is already fast, and WAAY lighter. It's not a Corolla. Or a Mustang.