M/T: BMW M4 vs 2016 Camaro

[kevm14]

Oh snap.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/comparis ... camaro-ss/

Need more Camaro vs articles. Like GT350. Hello???

[kevm14]

“I ran the numbers a couple of times just to make sure these were as close as the charts show,” road test editor Chris Walton noted when he emailed us the performance results. “FREAKY close, nearly identical.” He ain’t kidding. It’s a virtual tie to 60 mph, the BMW needing 4.2 seconds and the Chevy taking 4.1 seconds. Same story in the quarter mile: Camaro in 12.4 seconds at 115.8 mph, M4 in 12.5 seconds at 116.5 mph. What about the figure eight? Both contenders came in at 24.1 seconds even though the Camaro’s average lateral acceleration is 1.01 g compared to 1.00 g for the M4. The wheelbases are identical: 110.7 inches each. We had Randy Pobst lap each around the Streets of Willow: 1:22.94 for the BMW, 1:23.15 for the Chevy. Confession time: Due to an oversight on our end, the BMW was lapped with only half a tank of premium. Our standard testing procedure is to test and lap all cars with full tanks. Assuming 7 gallons were missing, that’s about 40 pounds. We asked our SCCA Hall of Fame buddy what difference 40 pounds makes on a racetrack. “Maybe a tenth,” Pobst said. Apologies to Camaro Nation, but our point about these two cars being near indistinguishable performers remains. You Ford fans? The new Mustang GT takes 1:24.32.

This is not the 1LE!

Also I am 100% sure the Camaro would have been faster around the track with the 8L90 trans. FWIW.

[kevm14]

Interesting.

That is all of the objective stuff. Measured, timed, and weighed. As you know, though, objective information is indeed useful, but it’s certainly not the entire picture. For instance, this Camaro SS is the 2SS model. Even though it’s about $9K pricier than the 1SS model we tested for Car of the Year, we don’t like it as much. Objectively, the performance is almost identical. Look at the figure-eight times. Both ran a 24.1-second lap. However, both Cammisa and I preferred the ride and handling from the fixed suspension on the 1SS to the adjustable magnetorheological dampers on the 2SS. We also both preferred the way the Camaro tore up a ribbon of asphalt compared to the M4.

Those are some significant words.

[kevm14]

All the little things that used to come standard on not just M Division cars but with BMWs in general seem to be lacking. “The steering’s numb, the shifter’s sloppy, the engine’s response is nonlinear, and the clutch pedal has far too much travel,” Cammisa said. The Camaro had far superior electric power steering and a more precise shifter, and its clutch, which by no means is world-class, is better than the third pedal in the M4.

As for the engine, no contest here—small-block all the way. Again, we know the performance numbers are a virtual dead heat, although the Camaro is so much easier to launch that on the street the Chevy will win 90 percent of the time. That’s not what we’re talking about. We enjoyed the 6.2-liter natural breather more.

However, we do not get the noise this thing makes. “It’s possibly the coarsest straight-six ever,” Cammisa said. “It sounds like a Cuisinart choking on concrete. Scott Evans described its cold idle as ‘one of those small, portable air compressors you plug into the lighter socket.’ He’s dead on.” That’s on the outside. Inside’s worse, and it’s made no better by the fake engine noise pumped in through the M4’s speakers. “BMW’s active sound management amounts to little more than spraying air freshener to drown out nasty bathroom smells,” Cammisa said. It’s fake, and noticeably so.

The small-block is GM’s core competency. The three most expensive products the General sells—Escalade, Z06, CTS-V—all have small-block V-8s. That compact, big-lunged, power-dense cam-in-block throwback is what Chevy and the rest do best. Same story here for the LT1 in the SS. It’s linear, sonically awesome both at idle and wide-open throttle, and just as fuel-efficient in the real world as the S55B30 in the F82. Instead of phony noises, the Chevy features an intake resonance tube plumbed right off the cold air pipe and mounted to the firewall. “Which,” Cammisa said, “is not only simpler but also sounds better. Sometimes simple just works better.” Amen.

Damn skippy. 'Murica!

The M4 was nearly $78k!

[kevm14]

Predictably, the comments are pretty good. For every goober drooling on his keyboard, there are plenty of folks to issue corrections.

Nearly twice the engine displacement, Nearly identical performance pushing a slightly heavier car on smaller tires, and nearly the same efficiency (MPG), better sound and reliability, and $31K leftover. This sounds like better engineering to me.

[kevm14]

A little deviation. Basically, when the product is good, the conversation shifts to "yeah, well...still don't trust American brands."

"Shame on GM for thinking we will forgive and forget!! "

Funny how some people have selective memories... I know people who bash GM up and down for the crappy cars they built in the 70's, all while extolling the virtues of the Hyundai they bought, blissfully unaware of the crap they built in the 90's.

Companies can and do change. JD Powers just released a three-year reliability report card that GM did well in, and Consumer Reports had only one GM "car not to buy" on their list: the Cadillac XTS - not because of quality, but explicitly saying that it was because the platform-mate Chevrolet Impala was a much better value.

Years ago, GM would have owned the entire "do not buy" list, yet no one is willing to give GM credit for improving so much.

[Bob]

I still don't trust German brands

[kevm14]

Haha, true.

From VW Vortex:

I don't get the image problem thing. If I was able afford a car in the Cadillac V-Series price range, I would not give a sh!t about what the typical "car guy" thinks.
Those typical car guys are generally someone who is locked in for life on a $399/mo lease on an Audi A4/M-B C-Class/BMW 3-Series. There "car guy" status only runs as deep as the badge on the nose of their small German sedan. I have a friend who is one of these types. He fancies himself a car guy because he leases entry-level Mercedes or Infiniti sedans, but he really can't tell you anything about any of the brands' other vehicles or any other vehicle in general. F@ck those people. I'd happily drive an ATS-V or Camaro, just because either one is outside of their narrow understanding of the automotive universe.

[kevm14]

Interestingly it can work the other way:

I hate to admit it, but I often worry about this. My neighbor was asking me about my S4 (he is a long-time BMW guy) and he a goes, "what are you paying for that, about $1,000/mo?" I couldn't believe that 1) he thought it was that much and 2) that he thought his neighbor was spending that much on a car. Granted, I live in a pretty affluent community and luxury cars a dime-a-dozen, but I have never really been comfortable with the "image" that my car projects on some folks. I know, I know...I shouldn't care.

Can confirm that this thread is correct about how people act and think regarding BMW's... When we got our 3-series a couple of years back, it was our first foray into new German luxury vehicles. (Before that we had owned various used Japanese cars, Nissan's, Subaru's, etc.) Almost overnight, people started looking at me differently. Friends, co-workers, family were all in awe that I could afford a new BMW. My cousin, (who's older than me by 2 years), told me, "I look up to you as a successful adult". My fellow sales guys were asking me how I was pulling in the big commissions. My boss told me I had the most expensive car at the company... (I don't).

And all the while, I'm sitting here like... I'd rather be driving an old Mazda Miata.

It is fucked up that, in 2016, someone can get a cheap lease on a 3-series and STILL get a reaction like that. It does explain the great sales BMW is experiencing.

[kevm14]

Back to the "interior" and "refinement" stuff:

BMW has been putting fairly low-rent interiors in their cars for a decade now. I remember a decade ago, the bimmerpost crowd would snub their noses at any domestic, "Oh well those cars can't handle like a BMW, they don't have the driving dynamics." Fast forward a decade when the BMWs are being outperformed, and now it's "Oh but you buy a BMW for the refinement and fit and finish." lol what a car guy metric.